[NFP] Byzantium & Gaul Pack (September 2020) - Patch Notes Discussion

Vienna is absent, I presume, for the same reason why Prague, Pagan, Samarkand, Tondo, and Vijaya are not city states: they are already in scenarios and some principle or limitation is preventing the devs from adding it.

That said, I think it should be added as a city-state, as should representatives of other past civs like Siam and Denmark. Seems fair.

Hmm. Now I'll have some fun thinking of what CS bonuses could be for some old civs. One of each type, perhaps...

Assur (Military): When conquering a city for the first time, gain a random eureka or inspiration
Vienna (Cultural): +50% tourism to great works of Music and ski resorts
Copenhagen (Mercantile): Each trade route gains +3 gold/turn per oil tile it passes over. This is a reference to the modern corporation Maersk, as Scandinavian stuff in civ is always either viking era or renaissance.
Lahaina (Scientfic... this is a native Hawaiian capital, to represent Polynesia): I want to make this something about polynesian's seafaring prowess. How about "+10% science when researching a tech that unlocks a naval unit"? Honestly, I'm having trouble coming up with a scientific CS from civ 5 who isn't already represented.
Onandaga (Industrial): Unlocks building the Longhouse. The longhouse can be built by builders on a woods tile. It gives 1 food and 1 production, and 1 more production for every adjacenct woods tile. Can't be built next to each other.
Sukhothai (Religious): Trade routes grant +1 faith for each different city-state or free city they pass through
 
Yes, it's a very good point, but it IS... Here are screenshots

Based on the leader portraits in the top corner, you're running at least one mod. Are you sure that none of your mods are causing trouble?

Also, is this a display bug, or are you really not getting the +1 production? Have you seen this happen in any other cities?
 
Is this pack not included in New Frontier? I bought the pack immediately on steam but it doesn't seem to indicate that I have the Byzantium & Gaul pack.
 
Can you check how many people in the city are following the religion in that city? And see if updating yields/going to next turn fix it?

FYI, I am now 30 turns later into that game, same status. Not sure what the number of people following the religion has to do with Work Ethic, really, as long as the city follows my religion... but the answer is now 5 out of 6 citizens

Based on the leader portraits in the top corner, you're running at least one mod. Are you sure that none of your mods are causing trouble?

Also, is this a display bug, or are you really not getting the +1 production? Have you seen this happen in any other cities?

Yes I use mods, but only non game modifying ones (mostly UI). For info, I use Sukritact's simple UI adjustments, More lenses, Extended diplomacy ribbon, Better report Screen ans Alternate Policy screen

I checked for fun by disabling all of them and reloading. Same results.

I only have 3 cities with Holy Sites, the 2 others are working fine. I really see no reason to suspect a display bug, the numbers add up correctly.

I'm wondering if the fact that I took over that city and didn't build it myself, plus the fact that when I conquered it was already pillages, makes this a special condition not covered by the bug correction applied...
 
Is this pack not included in New Frontier? I bought the pack immediately on steam but it doesn't seem to indicate that I have the Byzantium & Gaul pack.

You may need to restart Steam, or check the box on the list of activated DLC in your library.
 
..
Copenhagen (Mercantile): Each trade route gains +3 gold/turn per oil tile it passes over. This is a reference to the modern corporation Maersk, as Scandinavian stuff in civ is always either viking era or renaissance.
..
I think amenities would fit well.
 
Lahaina (Scientfic... this is a native Hawaiian capital, to represent Polynesia): I want to make this something about polynesian's seafaring prowess. How about "+10% science when researching a tech that unlocks a naval unit"? Honestly, I'm having trouble coming up with a scientific CS from civ 5 who isn't already represented.
Well Nineveh could theoretically be the scientist city-state while the militaristic one could be Attila's Camp. :mischief:
 
I would propose Elam as a city state actually. It lies in a contested area in terms of Civs, but is very difficult to assign to a particular civilization. ("sort of the Assyrians" doesn't rly count; assyria should not be starved for city options)
 
Just had a weird thing happen. Upon winning a Diplomatic victory as Basil, I clicked through the victory speech, but then it played the quote for St. Basil's cathedral and continued to do so as I proceeded to the main menu. Was it a bug? An Easter Egg? I have no idea.
 
Just had a weird thing happen. Upon winning a Diplomatic victory as Basil, I clicked through the victory speech, but then it played the quote for St. Basil's cathedral and continued to do so as I proceeded to the main menu. Was it a bug? An Easter Egg? I have no idea.
Perhaps a silly question, but were you building the Cathedral, and did it just happen to complete on the turn you won?
 
Copenhagen (Mercantile): Each trade route gains +3 gold/turn per oil tile it passes over. This is a reference to the modern corporation Maersk, as Scandinavian stuff in civ is always either viking era or renaissance.

Or: +2 gold for every single-hex wide channel in your territory that's part of a foreign trade route? :p

(I know the Sound Toll was Denmark specific, but it's not like the Olmec would have contracted out its head carvers to allies either.)
 
After playing the Gauls I find it a bit disturbing you can’t place harbors and the diplomayic quarter next to a city. But overall The Gauls are a very nice addition
 
I think the Gauls are one of the best things to come out of NFP. I'm a big fan of how much they change my playstyle. They are a bit too strong but that's ok.

From NFP, I really like the shuffle mode, Ethiopia, Maya and Gaul. All of these have added a lot to my play experience. Gran Colombia feels a bit too braindead to play, strong and overpowering but in a very boring way. Byzantium is fun but fairly one-dimensional, they need to go religion into war to use any of their abilities really and will always play out the same way. Shuffle mode allows Byzantium games to play out differently, and they do have a really fun early naval approach that is very good with coastal starts and coastal neighbors, but aside from that it's Crusading Cavalry all the time.
 
Or: +2 gold for every single-hex wide channel in your territory that's part of a foreign trade route? :p

(I know the Sound Toll was Denmark specific, but it's not like the Olmec would have contracted out its head carvers to allies either.)

That'd be great if you're playing as the Dutch. Unfortunately leading further to people mixing the two up (no idea why that happens, but when I came back home from Denmark, my friend asked me if I had stropwafels...)
 
After playing the Gauls I find it a bit disturbing you can’t place harbors and the diplomayic quarter next to a city. But overall The Gauls are a very nice addition

The Harbor is quite a problem. They are unable to do the 'Harbor - Commercial Hub - City Center triangle on a River' trick, and then put the Harbormaster Reyna in the city.
  1. Districts can't be next to the City-Center (-2 Gold from Harbor)
  2. Districts cannot enjoy minor adjacency bonuses from other district (-1 Gold from Harbor / Commercial Hub)
  3. Harbor are coastal, so you cannot compensate with Mines.
  4. The trade route path is going crazy, because they really really afraid to go into the sea when the Harbor is not next to the City-Center.
The Lighthouse building need you to found a coastal city. It is doable, but much harder to combine fresh water and commercial hub on a river next to a Harbor. In the end, the most common situation is settling 1-tile away from the river and go for an Aqueduct. But this means you either have to delay the growth of coastal city, miss some Gold adjacency, or not going full coastal (maybe it is the play).

For the Diplomatic Quarter, it is not as problematic. We are losing the extra Envoy for not being next to the City-Center, and therefore not having our Governors protected from Spies. I must admit I use the DQ as a Spy-trap next to a Commercial Hub on a really lucrative city. They are thinking they are going to siphon my Gold but I am going to siphon all their Spies!
 
The new "dramatic age" mode has a huge potential. That's why I'd like to add some ideas and critics so that something can be done.

-The loyalty system and the chances to loose a city

City loss:
At the moment I found it highly incoherent in some cases. For example, I'm in a game as India, in emperor difficulty, and I have a city with more than 10 citizens (recently 13), [5 spaces from my capital (13-15 citizens and a governor), 3 spaces from an other city with 9 citizens (and a governor), 6 and 7 spaces from free cities (6 and 4 citizens), in that city there is the governor's square and activity square, as well as Victor with Garrison Commander promotion... In golden areas I have more than 30 loyalty in that city but I constantly loose it in dark age. And not only I loose it but it is able to keep it's own loyalty, forcing me to fight it in order to get it back?!? (15 loyalty in the city when I get it back) How logical is that? Not to mention that I'm also loosing cities that are in a range of 6 spaces from the statue of liberty (Why is that possible????)

Loyalty pressure: So I found that in some cases, some cities that you loose really make no sense. But also, the pressure that free cities apply on each other is ridiculously high ?!? They apply the basic 20 loyalty that can vary, plus and extra constant 10 loyalty which is an equivalent to our governors (exept that governors only have +8), and a +1 bonus. It seems quite unbalanced and not that logical. Why would an anarchy, military centered, with no growth city, be more attractive than a regular civ one? (out of 12 civs on my emperor game, 3 collapsed because of free cities)

-Free cities military strength
So when a free city appears, the first thing it will do is generate the highest leveled units you have unlocked in your tech tree. And will keep up spamming them 'til the world ends.
Why not in the regular mode where you loose a city when you play too bold, or where you've really been bad... In dramatic ages mode you will loose plenty of cities just because some stupid AI decided to rush one branch of the tech tree and speed up the ages sequences (emperor's difficulty, atomic ages - turn 350/750). So unless you are playing full technology and military, you will most likely to fight way stronger units than what you already have. For example, I have to fight units in diffrent spots of your empire, that need oil to be built, but I haven't unlocked oil yet. Free city doesn't require the ressource to build it...

-To go further
So suppose that the previous issues where balanced, and you still come up with HUGE no-go areas that will most likely NOT absorb other civs with high level of happiness (because it's balanced and why would an entire city of happy citizen become a terrorist's lair?).
It'd be amazing if, after a while, that no-go area could structured itself and become a new civilisation? The new civ could start with a proportionate mix of the techs and civics of it's original civs with a little boost, and could be the closest availble civ not in game yet, of one of the original ones? For example, if Rome looses a bunch of cities, and those free cities manage to keep their own loyalty for a couple years (I don't know, something like 50 turns?), thoses cities could merge into a new empire like Byzantine (If Byzantine is not available it could be France, Germany, Spain, Greece, etc...). I personnaly love the idea of a new civ emmerging out of some free cities.
It would make the game more dynamic and keep away the possibility of having half of the map covered with barbarian-like empires, where nobody can enter, and that forces you to stop all international trade routes.

-AI
That's not really related to the new updates but I do wish AIs where a bit smater. I wish they wouldn't rush headlong one branch and accelerate the areas.
And it would also be great if, instead of having the same stupid AI with OP culture, science, production and starting number of settlers, the opponent could just be smarter, and adapt his game to you, the higher the difficulty is.
 
I would propose Elam as a city state actually. It lies in a contested area in terms of Civs, but is very difficult to assign to a particular civilization. ("sort of the Assyrians" doesn't rly count; assyria should not be starved for city options)

Couldn't we have said the same thing for Antioch, though? (although I do think Elam would be a good candidate for another ME CS, aside from the fact that the region is already pretty dense with them while East Asia and West America have nothing).
 
Couldn't we have said the same thing for Antioch, though? (although I do think Elam would be a good candidate for another ME CS, aside from the fact that the region is already pretty dense with them while East Asia and West America have nothing).
That's in regard to Babylon being replaced, which according to the suzerain bonus, Elam would be a good fit.

That being said Babylon replaced Seoul so there is nothing from stopping an East Asian city possibly replacing them in the future since they seem to be paired by "continents." Though I'm not sure what other East Asian city off the top of my head could be scientific? I guess Sukothai can work based off of the invention of the Thai alphabet.
 
That's in regard to Babylon being replaced, which according to the suzerain bonus, Elam would be a good fit.

That being said Babylon replaced Seoul so there is nothing from stopping an East Asian city possibly replacing them in the future since they seem to be paired by "continents." Though I'm not sure what other East Asian city off the top of my head could be scientific? I guess Sukothai can work based off of the invention of the Thai alphabet.

I would probably prefer Sukothai. Between giving us a continental SE Asian CS and representing a past civ, it just feels right. Plus there are so few options for east asian science CSs and the Thai kingdoms seem like one of the only reasonable options (as opposed to cultural, commercial, religious, militaristic CSs for which there are still plenty of options...even industrial civs really given the recent economic surge in ASEAN and imo Yakutsk being a solid option.).
 
Top Bottom