CBob03 Germans in Tu-tus

I concur - make the deals. Waiting will only allow an AI to research Writing and lose us the opportunity of trading it.

If we can buy HBR or Math, I'd favor Math for the cats. Have we seen any Horses around anywhere?

As for starting an Inca/Indian war, I'm of two minds. We can't directly take advantage of their warfare because they're too far away. However, if we get them fighting, they'll be expanding and researching more slowly.

...since this is Monarch, I'd say don't start that war. We'll have better tech trading opportunities if they grow and stay stronger until our expansion bumps up against their borders. THEN we should ally one against the other and take advantage of the chaos :)
 
I agree with the settling except for pink. Pink could be equally good as the dyes site or the flood plains site. Dyes gives us a luxury and brings us a small zone of control nearer the Arabs. Flood plains site will allow us a chance to build tons of workers and connect Michael von Biel to our empire. Of course, pink has the advantages of immediate higher production and commerce and protection from the Arabs, and it has adequate troop building capability.

@ Selling writing. I think we can risk 1~5 turns before selling it. We want to have as much time as possible to finish CoL and then get Philo.
 
I had planned to play last night after church, but we visited with friends and didn't get home until late. Plan to play this evening.
 
I have not been able to get to this game and probably won't be able to until next week. So I'll declare a skip.

Roster

CommandoBob - skipped
Tribute - UP!
SipTheSoup - on deck
Elphantium - warming up
mr_2_you
ansar - just played
 
I can play tonight.

Using CBob's preflight (well, he DID make one already :mischief: ), I think it would be best to settle the eastern settler in the site suggested, then settle the suggested blue dot. The pink one (the site 3 South of our capital) shall not be settled 3rd (if at all this set). I'd rather get the dyes site, as earlier in the next turnset, we can connect the dyes to our empire.

Also, I will delay trading Writing for 2 turns so that the AI might have a chance of reducing the costs of other techs for us. It's also not so long that they might break our monopoly.

Comments?
 
I can play tonight.

Using CBob's preflight (well, he DID make one already :mischief: ), I think it would be best to settle the eastern settler in the site suggested, then settle the suggested blue dot. The pink one (the site 3 South of our capital) shall not be settled 3rd (if at all this set). I'd rather get the dyes site, as earlier in the next turnset, we can connect the dyes to our empire.

Also, I will delay trading Writing for 2 turns so that the AI might have a chance of reducing the costs of other techs for us. It's also not so long that they might break our monopoly.

Comments?
I had planned to delay trading Writing after your earlier post, so no problem there. On the Dyes and Pinkish dot, the best reason I had to settle pink was just to put a city between Georg and HFH for defensive purposes. And it could be done quickly and save us from building a road. I decided to go for the 'safe' city instead of the 'good' city.

And oh, yeah, I think my preflight will be good enough to use. :lol:
 
Pre-Turn Analysis:

CBob's done it. :mischief: But to refresh our memories.

Cities:
Richard Wagner: Size 2.8(+.1/turn) Settler in 3
Heinz Friedrich Hartig: Size 3.85(+.25/turn) Settler in 9
Michael von Biel Size 2.0(+0/turn) Worker in 8
Georg Hadju: Size 2.9(+.15/turn) Settler in 10
Heinz Chur: Size 1.5(+.1/turn) Worker in 5

Military:
1 settler
3 workers
7 warriors
3 archers
2 curragh(s?)

This set will be mainly settler building. We may be able to settle 4 sites this set though it will probably be 3. War preparations to begin at the end of this set. However, war can be declared on Arabia at any time. It doesn't really matter when since they will still be much weaker than us. 1 of our archers (5/5) is next to 2 barbs horsies.

That's okay since they're on a camp. (Only one should attack if at all).

CoL in 22. 71 g at -3gpt.

Turn 0
... all units moved.

Inter:
Inca start SoZ. They have ivory....
Barbs do NOT attack.

Turn 1
Settler approaches green dot site.
Archer chooses to play defensively and wait for the barbarians to attack first (so that healing will occur).
Curragh (I forgot they have only 2 move! Oh well.) does not attack the barb galley that popped out of a nearby camp.
NW warrior heals.
NE warrior steps on Incan road network to be rude. Pillaging will occur promptly.

Inter:
Archer wins 3/5. Curragh wins 1/3. I have a feeling that might have been better had I attacked first. :(
RW Settler->Archer in 4. (It will then make another archer in 3).
Russians start Pyramids.

Turn 2
Trading time!
Um. Oh dear. The AI have gotten writing. (3 out of 6). I'm really sorry, team. I thought 2 turns would be acceptable. Still, we can get lots of gold, for Ghandi, Abu, and Osman are rich now.
We get an overall IW + 8g + 104g + 56g. (Everyone but Osman has writing now.)
But I was right that Horseback would be traded around. Now, Toku, Cathy, and Pacha all have it. That means we may buy it for 221 gold. But since gold never devalues, and we don't see any horses that we'll use very soon, I'll hold off.

Charge! Archer wins 2/5 on the remaining barb horseman. 25 gold gained. Injured curragh returns to Georg Hadju. It does waste 14 turns of exploration, but I'd rather keep the curragh. After all, galleys come soon. (If we build harbors, we can upgrade our curraghs).

Pillage! The warrior in future Inca territory pillages. Their scouts are getting lost, and Pachacuti is quite confused.

Turn 3
Found Moritz Eggert. It sounds pretty cool. Will make a warrior in 5 since it has 2 spt.

Spot orange borders and light blue. Dutch/England? Sumeria?

Turn 4
It is Sumeria! We'll give him ALPHABET for 77 gold. He is polite. He's the only one except Ghandi and Osman. :(

Trading time!
I see a potential deal. While Osman will be getting writing cheap (54 gold), we'll catapult ourselves forward by buying Math (Japan and Inca have it now). And then trading it for HBR (via India or Russia). I'm very sure this is possible since I checked with Inca and 329 gold is close to a deal. 54 more should tip it over to acceptable.

Japan offers Math for 356. Inca for 346. Sorry, Toku. After we pillaged Pacha's roads, we kinda felt sorry for him.

India or Russia? Russia accepts a straight Math for HBR deal, unlike India, which won't. So Cathy wins! (Probably because of the same culture group trading bonus thingy).Pop hut! And get 50 gold.... Stupid Osman. He shouldn't have gotten writing. I fume. 87 gold left.

Pillage!

Green Dot Settler into place. Lux raised to 20% to accomodate our double wheat town HFH. It's okay though, settler in 1.

Inter:
HFH Settler->Settler in 10.
Heinz Chur Worker->Spearman (for defense of our future archers).

Turn 5
You know, the other settler finishes in 2 turns. I guess CBob's decision isn't too wrong. Pink dot is fine since technically, a site closer to the town that created the settler is better. Pink dot will be settled this set. (Such a surprising turn of events this turnset is.)

Settle!
Helmut Lachenmann founded. Warrior in 5 (2 spt again!) I just love large maps for their reduced corruption.

Contact!
English found. We're up 3 techs but they have 82 gold. I guess they can have HBR. I open CivAssist and find us comfortably ahead. (Until, of course, the Sumerians get Polytheism, which they MUST be researching to be SO FAR behind.) Another polite person!

Sliders changed!
Science back to 100% CoL in 13 with -3 gpt. We have 166 g.

Inter:
Richard Wagner Archer->Archer in 4 (will be 3).
Archer rushes off to HFH to act as MP.

Turn 6
...

Inter:
Georg Hadju finishes yet another settler. Spearman started. Can be switched (though maybe not feasibly to a warrior)

Turn 7
Charge!
Archer wins 5/5 on a barb.

Settle!
Ernst Richter settled 3 S of Richard Wagner. It has 3 spt! Rax started as promised (to myself, at the very least).

Archer sent to defend the dyes settler. (You may find the settlement location controversial.... If there is time [or rather, isn't], I won't be able to settle this set, and we can discuss it.)

No good deals.

Trespass!
2 warriors enter 2 different AI territory to see the lands beyond.

Inter:
MVB our isolated plains town has made a worker. I say 'good job,' and ask it to make an archer (switchable but good for barb defense).
Mr. Eggert makes a warrior->worker in 5.

Turn 8
Better deals. But only just so. (Like 30g for Math instead of 5g).

Inter:
Pachacuti makes an embassy in our capital. Thanks for saving us 60 gold and wasting yours.
Karakorum finishes the Colossus.
Moritz Eggert under attack by a barb warrior. Hey! Didn't I just build a warrior there? Great!
RW Archer->Spear in 3. Then Settler ought to be made.

Turn 9
Warrior in Sumeria enters a spot right between the far side and the near side. Since this is the 3rd turn, we should be booted. I hope we get lucky (though, IIRC, it's very unlikely or even impossible).

Worker moves!
Workers move to optimize future traveling times.

No good deals.

Settler possibly in position. You guys are in luck!

Inter:
Helmut makes a warrior->worker in 5. We NEED them.
English start Pyramids. I wonder how much better the AI would be if they didn't ever let the capital make wonders in the Ancient Age.
Kyoto has finished the Oracle. Golden age?
Ottomans cascade to Pyramids.
Odd, we were not booted from Sumeria.

Turn 10
Will not move settler or its nearby archer defender.

Inca got Map Making! Sumeria got Polytheism!! They did not trade!!!!

For some reason trading 4 techs gets us Poly and 19 gold. Told you the Sumerians would become equal with Poly. I'm just glad they (probably) don't know the Inca. :P Sumeria is back to cautious.
And I was right, the Inca don't know the Sumerians because Poly for Map Making is close to a deal!!!! (Yes, that's 4 exclamation points.)

However, I don't consider needing an additional 75 gold as close to a deal Pachacuti. Geez. He's still cautious. Boy, are we tech advanced!

Lux to 20% to accomodate HFH. Next time, there will be a chop, so we'll avoid this problem.

Explore!
Warrior approaches the exit of Sumeria.
Warrior leaves Incan (future) territory.
Curragh leaves Georg Hadju after being repaired.


Post-Turn Analysis

We have 7 (or 8 if we choose to settle in place) towns by 1000 BC.

Military:
1 settler (+1)
5 workers (+2)
9 warriors
5 archers (+1)
2 curragh
1 barracks (+1)
0 spearman (+3)+'s indicate being built.

Science:
CoL in 8 at 80%
Known: Up to Iron Working, Mathematics, Writing, Map Making, HBR, and Poly.
Lack: Construction, Currency, Philo, CoL, Lit, Republic, and Monarchy. (Sumeria will probably get that last one for us BTW).

Notes:
Explore past the Sumerian and Incan territories.

Choose to settle in place at the dyes spot (closer to home=faster dyes) or 1 space NW (better location for attacking Arabs and connecting to future towns, a horse town would be within easy reach if settled NW). Settler and defending archer left for the next player to move after discussion.

Prepare for war! Arabia DOES have iron though it might not be connected by the time we have war. They have not connected it yet. Arabs only have 4 towns. We should be able to take them down efficiently with an equal force of about 10 units (8 archer, 2 spear or 9, 1). Force ought to be ready in at most 2 sets (they ought to have 6-7 towns by then.)

Oh yes, and the archer NNW of our capital is popping the hut in the fog 2 spaces away if it is still there.

And sorry for the poor CAII screenshot. I took it after exiting too hastily.

CBob03-1000BC.JPG


<<SAVE>>

Next person plays until 750 BC, so you know.
 
I've got to say. This set seemed really depressing up until the point where we got Math and HBR. Then the thing that made this great was the fact that Sumeria and Inca did NOT have contact, and we got both their monopoly techs! This is just what makes Civ fun for me.

Still though, CoL in 8, and we still need Philo. Can we make it?

And I'd love to here your comments/criticism on how I played.
 
It looks like you used diagonal moves when moving the explorers. My understanding is that it's generally best to use only moves in the four cardinal directions - you reveal more squares that way.

Also, I notice a red border along the edge of the fog to the S of the Sumerians - it would be prudent to send an explorer that way soon.

You got some very nice results while trading - well done.

Why are we building reg. spears? Personally, I'd prefer to build raxes first, then focus on archers rather than spears.

I'd also suggest building another curragh to send past the Arabs.

Oh, and I like settling 1NW of the current position - I think it gives better options for settling extra cities in the long term.
 
I'm so confused. Diagonals? That could either be the NW and SE axes, for they are truly diagonal. But then the grid itself is diagonal, so it might be NS EW axis. Let's see. Going NW SE makes 3 tiles appear. But going NS EW makes 5 tiles appear. So I assume that means NS EW. Complete diagonalness doesn't seem so good to me. I'd rather step on hills and mountains (and volcanos, when they're not smoking). I suppose there must be an optimal exploration strategy (also taking into account huts and barb camps), but this probably is not the time to discuss one.

Reg spears are good short term defense, I guess. I suppose we ought to switch, but if we do make a rax and archer/spearman, the next thing would probably have to be a worker since the towns in question have such high fpt.

Maybe I ought to change my unit building strategy. High attack units ONLY! (Then maybe I won't get demanded so much....)

And wow. That IS a bad screenshot. No minimap at all! Could someone post it?
 
I'm so confused. Diagonals? That could either be the NW and SE axes, for they are truly diagonal. But then the grid itself is diagonal, so it might be NS EW axis. Let's see. Going NW SE makes 3 tiles appear. But going NS EW makes 5 tiles appear. So I assume that means NS EW. Complete diagonalness doesn't seem so good to me. I'd rather step on hills and mountains (and volcanos, when they're not smoking). I suppose there must be an optimal exploration strategy (also taking into account huts and barb camps), but this probably is not the time to discuss one.

Yeah, when I say "diagonals", I mean "NSEW" rather than moving towards the corners of your monitor.
Now's as good a time as ever to discuss exploration strategies. I don't mind taking the occasional non-cardinal-direction step in order to stop on a mountain, but I won't follow

Reg spears are good short term defense, I guess. I suppose we ought to switch, but if we do make a rax and archer/spearman, the next thing would probably have to be a worker since the towns in question have such high fpt.

Maybe I ought to change my unit building strategy. High attack units ONLY! (Then maybe I won't get demanded so much....)

And wow. That IS a bad screenshot. No minimap at all! Could someone post it?

I never bother with reg. units once I'm done making Warriors. Vet troops help in warfare be a *lot*. As for spearmen, well, we can use Warriors for MP and archer stacks (and eventually swords or horsemen) for defense.

If we have more offensive power, we're less likely to get declared on - and when we *do* go to war, well, "A good offense is the best defense." :mischief:
 
If we have more offensive power, we're less likely to get declared on - and when we *do* go to war, well, "A good offense is the best defense." :mischief:


i agree, we should avoid building spears at all... archers contribute more to the 'intimidation' factor than spears do.
 
Righto.

CommandoBob
Tribute - just played
SipTheSoup - UP!
Elphantium - on deck
mr_2_you
ansar
Thanks for the roster update, Tribute.

We had a car accident Wednesday evening and that has sorta put the week into a tailspin. No major damage to people, but the car is probably totaled. My wife was driving, the roads were wet and she hydroplaned into a concrete abutment in an HOV lane. No other cars involved, but we messed up a lot of people's rush hour drive home. :D

Slowly getting back into things and SGs (MTDG 2; SGOTM 12 and CBob03).
 
A got it. I should be able to play the set later tonight. The settler will head one NW before plunking down into a new city. Some builds will be switched to raxes for better military output.
 
did anyone discuss the horsie yet? there's a horsie sort of near us to the west!
 
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