CBob03 Germans in Tu-tus

[SipTheSoup]

Right-o, played my set.


2550 bc, Turn 0
Everything is set up according to plan
Press enter, and off we go!

IBT:
Richard Wagner Granary -> rArcher (4), put both citizens back to work, growth is in one

2510 bc, Turn 1
Warrior02 heads north, plans to skirt along the hills next to the plains/deserts as he heads east/northeast
Warrior01 heads toward the hut, no sign of any Arabians
Worker01 finishes his road, and moves to improve the riverside BG

IBT:
Richard Wagner grows, rArcher now due in 2

2470 bc, Turn 2
Warrior02 north again, spots a pair of furs
Warrior01 pops the hut and gets maps, shows us that Mecca is size 1, and is on some fairly fertile ground (grasslands by a river) but I cant spot any bonus food sources
Bump research on Alpha up to max, due in 19 @ -2gpt (we currently have 36g in the bank)

IBT:
Nothing

2430 bc, Turn 3
Warrior02 heads east, skirting the edge of the hills and grasslands
Warrior01 heads doubles back towards Mecca
Worker02 begins roading towards where our next town will be located

IBT:
Richard Wagner rArcher -> Settler (5), with growth in 3 turns

2390 bc, Turn 4
Warrior01 plans to plant on the hill across a river from Mecca, to keep their workers from doing any improving
Warrior02 keeps heading east along the ridge
Archer01 moves towards the Arabians, planning on avoiding that goodyhut that is between the two of us
Decide to keep science running at max, even though now there is a -3gpt defecit

IBT:
Nothing

2350 bc, Turn 5
Warrior01 moves next to the hill
Warrior02 still hasn’t spotted anything interesting, still moving east
Archer01 keeps heading towards our enemies

IBT:
Nothing

2310 bc, Turn 6
Warrior01 moves onto the hill, spots a pair of wines next to Mecca, and a pair of Arabian rWarriors menacingly glaring at him from across a river.

IBT:
The first Arabian rWarrior redlines ours while killing himself, while the second one takes him out
Richard Wagner grows to size four, settler due in one, lux tax upped to 10% for a turn

2270 bc, Turn 7
The Arabians will give some combination of Baghdad, 30g, and Ceremonial Burial for peace. But that is not a good enough offer.
Archer01 keeps trekking towards them
Warrior02 still hasn’t spotted anything notworthy

IBT:
Richard Wagner Settler (back to size two, growth in four) -> rWarrior (2)

2230 bc, Turn 8
Archer01 heads towards Arabians
Our settler heads to his settling point
Warrior02 keeps moseying along
Alphabet in 14 @ 100% with -3gpt per turn, 22g in the bank

IBT:
Nothing

2190 bc, Turn 9
Settler keeps going towards settling point
Archer01 hops atop a mountain near the Arabians, doesn’t spot any Arabian units
Warrior02 keeps walking along the mountains, and spots another fur in the valley below
Warrior01 (part two) will be completed next turn

IBT:
Arabian rWarrior approaches our archer, forces decision to stay in place, or move to hill inbetween the two, and hope defensive bombard + hill bonus is enough to survive an attack
Richard Wagner rWarrior -> rWarrior (this build is changable)

2150 bc, Turn 10
Warrior02 spots a fortified barb on a mountain
Warrior01 heads towards the Arabians
Settler is in place to settle
Archer01 still has to make the decision between moving onto the hill, or staying on his own mountain. I leave that call up to the next person.

Checking what Arabia would give for peace, they managed to get alphabet (bastards), and are willing to trade Baghdad + a crappy tech for peace, or some combination of crappy techs, but they are unwilling to let go of The Wheel or Masonry
Left the possibility of peace with Arabia for the next player to decide about.

The build in Richard Wagner can and should be changed to something more useful.


Post turn summary:

Military:
2 Workers
3 Warriors
1 Archer
1 Settler

Science:
We know BW, WC, and Pots, reasearching Alphabet @ 100% with a 4gpt defecit. Our bank currently has 16g in it. The building of our next town should ease this -gpt burden.

Cities:
Richard Wagner will grow in two, and complete its Warrior in two.
It has a Granary, 5spt, 6fpt, 7gpt, and a garrison of a single rWarrior.

The save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/114672/CBob03_BC_2150.SAV


If I'm missing anything, please let me know.

 

[CommandoBob]

Looks like a good set of turns to me. Dull, but that is okay, too (and sometimes very nice).

With the Arabs we may just want to kill them all and get them out of our way. Less headache in the future; we don't have to be concerned about their culture expansion and tech prices go down.

Our new city can focus on a barracks while Wagner makes Warriors and Archers. We may only need a stack of five Archers to take out the Arabs.

We'll know more about all of this once Elphantium gives us his report on our Arab killing possibilities.

Roster
CommandoBob
Tribute
SipTheSoup - just played
Elphantium - UP!
mr_2_you - on deck
ansar - warming up

 

[Tribute]

@CBob: Make those 5 veteran archers and 1 veteran spearman, and I'd be more ready to believe it. Regulars just seem so bad. (This is what I get from playing AW many times recently.)

Shouldn't we at least take the free techs by making peace? We're clearly not going to get too far with just one archer as they should be using spears soon anyway. And while Berlin may currently have the capacity to build more troops, I'd rather be able to get Philosophy before the AI than to have a very low chance of beating the Arabs. If we will stay at war, we'd need to build up troops. 5 archers (with intermediate settlers) takes >20 turns, so we may as well wait and take those techs.

Richard Wagner is Pop: 2.8. Assuming it builds two archers next. That will take 4 then 3 turns. Then it ought to build a settler for the unit support in 4 turns. Back to size 3. 2 more archers in 6 more turns.

17 turns have passed. And we have 5 archers. (A spearman more would be 20 turns). Why not make temporary peace? The units still need to move into position after all.

 

[CommandoBob]

@CBob: Make those 5 veteran archers and 1 veteran spearman, and I'd be more ready to believe it. Regulars just seem so bad. (This is what I get from playing AW many times recently.)

Shouldn't we at least take the free techs by making peace? We're clearly not going to get too far with just one archer as they should be using spears soon anyway. And while Berlin may currently have the capacity to build more troops, I'd rather be able to get Philosophy before the AI than to have a very low chance of beating the Arabs. If we will stay at war, we'd need to build up troops. 5 archers (with intermediate settlers) takes >20 turns, so we may as well wait and take those techs.

I forgot about the free techs. Which is what I get trying to post from work between tasks.

Yes, peace for tech makes better sense, given that it will take us 20 turns to train our military. (And it seems strange to me that we are aiming for a culture victory and here we are planning to eliminate an AI less than 50 turns into the game. )

 

[Elephantium]

I'd also like to sign peace after putting only a little more pressure on the Arabs - we can declare again in 20-30 turns (once we have a respectable attack force).

I'd also like to make a barracks in RW. The second town should focus on becoming a settler factory ASAP. It'll have to be a 6-turn factory, so the sooner it's pumping out settlers, the better.

For RW, I'm a bit at a loss of what to do. We're currently getting 5spt, so with the extra shields on growth, our spt for the next several turns looks like this:

Turn: size	spt	total
		            shields
1	2	5	 5
2	3  	7	 12
3	3.2	7 	 19	
4	3.4	7 	 26
5	3.6	7 	 33
6	3.8	7 	 40
7	4.0	9 	 49

Option 1: Warrior, then 'rax. Waste 3 shields, done in 5.
Option 2: 'rax, then archer. Waste 7 shields, done in 7.
Option 3: 'rax, then archer (disband Warrior to complete 'rax on turn 3). Waste 2 shields, done in 6.

Options 1 and 2 let us explore more with the Warrior 2W of RW. Option 3 wastes fewer shields, but it requires the sacrifice of a Warrior that could otherwise head off on a fogbusting mission.

What does the team think? Personally, I'd like to go with option 3 (waste fewer shields and finish the two builds sooner) - but fogbusting could be more helpful in the long run.

Edit: Consider this my "Got it."

 

[CommandoBob]

Option 1: Warrior, then 'rax. Waste 3 shields, done in 5.
Option 2: 'rax, then archer. Waste 7 shields, done in 7.
Option 3: 'rax, then archer (disband Warrior to complete 'rax on turn 3). Waste 2 shields, done in 6.

I think I like Option 1 best.

We need to know the lay of the land and we need luxuries quickly, to allow more units to be in the field.

With all the mountains around us, we'll need a bit more room than normal to expand. We'll have to be a bit more selective than usual in placing new cities. Roading through mountains will take 9 Worker Turns (ouch!!) which will also factor into city placement.

I don't like Option 2; it wastes too many shields (unless we could convert them into beakers or gold somehow).

Option 3 is the most efficient, but at this stage of the game I favor fog busting. If nothing else, we'll have more warning when the nosey neighbors come by.

Is there a big difference between 1 and 3. Nah, I don't think so. Both build a barracks, which we need. The order of the unit builds is different. I just prefer to have a warrior exploring instead of waiting to be disbanded, that's all.

 

[Tribute]

I'm not sure how that shield counting works. RW just finished a warrior and should have 0 shields currently. That makes a rax now the best option (6 turns). Then we can have archers or warriors or settlers. And then I recall that Germany is militaristic and raxes only cost 20 shields.

Option 1 is the best then. I'd rather not waste military units. And since we probably can't attack Arabia too forcefully, will we make peace this set?

 

[CommandoBob]

I'm not sure how that shield counting works. RW just finished a warrior and should have 0 shields currently. That makes a rax now the best option (6 turns). Then we can have archers or warriors or settlers. And then I recall that Germany is militaristic and raxes only cost 20 shields.

Yes, RW has 0 shields now and will produce 5 this next turn. On the following turn it will grow to size 3 and the extra citizen will add 2 more shields, making 7 spt. Thus, in two turns RW will produce 12 shields. In three turns, we add 7 more and have 19 shields. Here is where Elephantium was going to disband a Warrior to finish off the barracks in 3 turns.

Does that help? I think I see your confusion, but I don't know if I can explain it away.

 

[Elephantium]

Tribute, according to my shield-counting table, we're on turn 0 with 0 shields in the bin.

I put a Warrior before the 'rax in Option 1 because doing it the other way around wastes 4 shields for the warrior instead of 2.

 

[Elephantium]

Blast! We lose Archer01 to the Arabs.

Now we can only get Baghdad + Alphabet *or* CB for peace. No other deals are possible.

I'm inclined to take Baghdad - we can trade for CB later very easily - but I'm going to pause for input.

 

[SipTheSoup]

I say Baghdad + Alpha, since we are aiming to reasearch it anyway, CB is worth near nothing, and Baghdad prob wont be useful, but it will show us a bit more of the map, and we can always abandon it if need be.

 

[CommandoBob]

Take Alphabet and Baghdad, it helps us get to Philosophy. We'll extort or trade for CB later.

 

[Tribute]

(Oh, sorry. I forgot to state that my confusion had gone away the moment, I realized there were cheaper raxes.)

Alphabet and Bagdhad. And all the gold you can get!

 

[Elephantium]

The Arabs don't have any gold

 

[Elephantium]

Pre-set Analysis:

Strategy:

Explore, REX, and resolve the current Arabian war. I'm going to fight the nearest Arab Warrior, then assess Mecca for pillaging/sacking. If I can do a bit more damage with the archer, I will, but otherwise I'll sign peace for techs.

Military:

1 Settler
2 Workers
3 Warriors
1 Archer

City:
Richard Wagner (2), growth in 2, Warrior in 2

Science:

7bpt, Alphabet in 11.

Pre-turn activity:

Move the archer to the hill.

IT:

Archer > Warrior
Treasury low (12 gold).

Turn 1 (2110 BC):

Heinz Friedrich Hartig (HFH) founded, making Granary.
Warrior01 moves back towards RW.
Warrior03 moves out of RW to the north.
Archer01 stands in place to recover HP (currently 2/3).

IT:

RW: Warrior->Rax (3 turns)

Turn 2 (2070 BC):

Worker02 starts clearing forest near HFH.
Archer01 moves closer to Mecca.
Peace deals:
Baghdad + worker or CB or Alphabet
CB + Worker
We still can't get The Wheel or Masonry for peace without paying.

IT:

Blast! We lose Archer01 to the Arabs.

Turn 3 (2030 BC):

Now we can only get Baghdad + Alphabet *or* CB for peace. No other deals are possible.

I'm going to pause for input.

Input gained. We take peace for Baghdad + Alpha.

WOW! Baghdad is to our NE. The Arabs must have popped a settler from a hut. I set it to work on a Warrior.

IT:

Zzz...

Turn 4 (1990 BC):

I forgot to check F6 before hitting 'enter'. Switch science from Wheel to Writing, it will take 30 turns with current commerce.
Rename Baghdad to Michael von Biel

IT:

RW: Rax->Archer

Turn 5 (1950 BC):

Zzzz...

IT:

Chop completes, 10 shields to HFH.

Turn 6 (1910 BC):

Zzz...

IT:

RW grows to size 4.

Turn 7 (1870 BC):

Fortify Warrior01 in RW for MP.

IT:

RW: Archer->Settler
HFH grows to size 2.

Turn 8 (1830 BC):

We meet the Japanese! They have four cities (including capital), 18g, and are up Masonry, The Wheel, and CB.
Drop science to 80%, we're breaking even on commerce.

IT:

A Russian Scout walks into view.

Turn 9 (1790 BC):

Russia has three cities, 30 gold, and are up Masonry, The Wheel, and CB. I get the feeling that some of the AIs have already met.

IT:

Grr. Barbarians walk into view near Baghdad/Michael von Biel. They're in position to sack the city a turn before the Warrior completes

Turn 10 (1750 BC):

Move explorers, our archer uncovers a cow to the SW of RW.


End-turn Recap:


Military:

2 Workers
4 Warriors
1 Archer

City:
Richard Wagner (4), growth in 2, Settler in 2
Heinz Friedrich Hartig (2), growth in 3, Granary in 41
Michael von Biel (1), growth in 13, Warrior in 3, probable barbarian invasion in 2

Science:

12bpt, Writing in 24.

Treasury: 2gold, +0 gpt

Notes:

Warrior01 and Warrior04 are MPs in RW.
Warrior03 is exploring the desert N of RW, I suggest doing an L-shape to the W and N.
Warrior02 is very far away to the NE, I suggest heading generally W.
HFH will need MPs soon, so I suggest building another Warrior after the current Settler completes.
I really screwed up on my handling of the war - I should have pressed for peace the turn before I lost the Archer. I also goofed when I signed the peace deal, forgetting to adjust our research before ending the turn.

 

[CommandoBob]

Miskeys happen and it's not like we're in a race with anybody but ourselves. No big deal.

I'm not too worried about the lone barbarian trying to sack our exposed city. We have 2 gold. So what if takes all of it? It was only 2 gold.

I have got to hear Jagdstück that Michael von Biel composed. From just the instrumentation it reminds of PDQ Bach's Concerto for Horn & Hardart or Iphigenia in Brooklyn.

Von Biel sounds to be just a bit wild but I get the impression that Hartig is a bit more sedate.

 

[Tribute]

Wow. I know an insufficient number of German composers. I must look them up for my set then.

At least now we have 3 towns and multiple contacts that are all more advanced than us! Yippie! Here's to hoping that HFH will be a great settler factory! (And nice pre-emptive irrigation work.)

 

[Elephantium]

Wikipedia has a nice index of German composers

 

[mr_2_you]

i've got the save and will probably play tonight.

 

[mr_2_you]

maybe i missed it, what's with the arrows on that drawing tusker?