CBob03 Germans in Tu-tus

[Tribute]

The other good reason to have walls and Spearmen = barbarians. However, it looks pretty much under control though I would have preferred sending a few units to pound out all the barbs in their camps. Unfortunately, a stray unit/worker must have incited them to attack.

The war effort doesn't need the catapults unless you want vet/elite archers to kill spearmen in Medina. They should only have 2 units there (3 maximum). the archer army can take it out in 1~2 turns; the catapults would only slow the group down.

Expand or revolt? Why not mass produce settlers (so that they all complete at about the same time) then revolt after they finish? I don't know if anarchy is extended or anything, but the growth and new towns would help after the switch to Feudalism/Monarchy. (You have at least 5 turns till Feudalism completes, Elephantium.)

 

[mr_2_you]

cbob has laid out for very detailed plans, but what I note lacking is the connecting of vital militaristic resources.

horses.

iron.

connecting cities is great, but connecting those resources will allow our core to build swifter and stronger units to use against the barbs and in our next conflict.

 

[CommandoBob]

cbob has laid out for very detailed plans, but what I note lacking is the connecting of vital militaristic resources.

horses.

iron.

connecting cities is great, but connecting those resources will allow our core to build swifter and stronger units to use against the barbs and in our next conflict.

You are right, I did not pass on any plans to connect these. The Horses I just missed entirely. I did not see them until after I posted my notes. Plus, during my turns, with all the White Horse guys near eberlin, there were no workers nearby and almost no way to protect them while they connected the Horses.

The Iron near Kufah I saw after I had already drawn my the road from Mecca to Kufah. I was too lazy to go back and change it. Sorry.

By and large we are winning our battles with our Archers. With some Spears for better defense, we have all we need to take our the Arabs. We are at peace with everybody else, so I wasn't worried about further warfare after the Arabs and didn't feel the need to connect Iron or Horses.

With Wines connected we don't need as many units in the larger cities doing MP duty. Once we get gems connected, up near Medina, we'll need even less. And we need the luxuries to keep our cities producing units. (I think we need four luxuries on-line before markets really become effective, but that is just based on memory.)

Luxuries vs. Resources is somewhat like a dog chasing it's tail. In this case, for the next ten turns anyway, I think we need the luxuries first because of our government type and the resources second because of our military size and power and general lack of warfare. (However, the Mecca-Kufah road could run next to the Iron, so that to connect the Iron means roading one extra tile. That makes more sense than using that same stack to connect Gems and then move back to Kufah to connect Iron.)

 

[mr_2_you]

on another note, we're (temporarily) down two players.

does anyone objects to a lurker (or anyone else) filling in for a few turns?

 

[anaxagoras]

On my turns I founded three cities: Gustav Mahler, George Frederick Handel and PDQ Bach. The last, PDQ Bach, is ignored, and with good reason.

But are you certain he was a German composer? You know, there are rumors he was an impostor....

I must say, though, it makes me worry about your game. I thought your goal was to fill the world with German culture, not suck the world dry of all culture.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I have been watching this SG in between posts on my current one, and I would be interested in playing a few turns to help out if you guys would let me. I am interested in seeing how Feudalism works in this game, I have never used that government in a game before. I have tried culture victories before, with mixed success. My best was as a late democracy with 1500gpt income, which allowed lots of cash-rushing. I built every culture building available, even in my science farms and tundra towns. Culture tends to snowball that way. Anyway, I wouldn't mind lending a hand with this SG(I like the concept )

 

[CommandoBob]

On my turns I founded three cities: Gustav Mahler, George Frederick Handel and PDQ Bach. The last, PDQ Bach, is ignored, and with good reason.

But are you certain he was a German composer? You know, there are rumors he was an impostor....

Impossible! An impostor would have done a better job of stealing writing music.

I must say, though, it makes me worry about your game. I thought your goal was to fill the world with German culture, not suck the world dry of all culture.

True, but all that 'lost' culture would be found at the University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople.

 

[CommandoBob]

I have been watching this SG in between posts on my current one, and I would be interested in playing a few turns to help out if you guys would let me... Anyway, I wouldn't mind lending a hand with this SG(I like the concept )

I don't have a problem with that, since we a bit shorthanded. You'll follow ansar and I'll follow you.

Roster:
CommandoBob - just played
Tribute - skipped until mid-August
SipTheSoup - skip this turnset
Elephantium - UP!
mr_2_you - on deck
ansar - warming up
TheOverseer714 - just enlisted

 

[CommandoBob]

Expand or revolt? Why not mass produce settlers (so that they all complete at about the same time) then revolt after they finish? I don't know if anarchy is extended or anything, but the growth and new towns would help after the switch to Feudalism/Monarchy. (You have at least 5 turns till Feudalism completes, Elephantium.)

I like this, since we can't build anything during anarchy. We have the most cities on the map, so, expecting the worst, we might get 9 turns of anarchy. Lets build cities during the anarchy years.

Once we revolt into Feudalism, which way do we expand? North and east, claiming open land? Or northwest, removing the Ottomans from our land? If we are aiming to have 200 or so cities we will need a lot more room.

Note: We can still pop rush for settlers, but that can hurt us too. If a city is at size 4, we poprush for 20 shields (1 citizen) and now the city is size 3, and then we make a settler, bringing it down to size 1. Somewhat drastic.

 

[mr_2_you]

feudalism seems great, except that as our cities grow past size 6, we can support fewer (5 per town, 2 per city, 1 per metro)military units at a cost of 3gpt each. PLUS, we still get war weariness and cannot cash rush.

feudalism stinks. i've not used it before, so this will be a learning experience for me.

 

[gmaharriet]

feudalism seems great, except that as our cities grow past size 6, we can support fewer (5 per town, 2 per city, 1 per metro)military units at a cost of 3gpt each. PLUS, we still get war weariness and cannot cash rush.

feudalism stinks. i've not used it before, so this will be a learning experience for me.

lurker's comment: The thing is, you only need a few cities in your core to produce most of your units and important infrastructure like the Forbidden Palace...sorta like a 5CC game, though perhaps a few more larger cities.

All of the other 185 or so towns stay at pop 6 or less, because you whip them every time they get a few citizens, and the unit support will be higher than you can even manage to build enough troops for.

BTW, if you need to whip for a 60-shield item like a temple, you don't necessarily need 6 citizens (you cannot whip more than half the population) to build that temple. You'll need to learn how to short-rush, using items that cost fewer shields, then completing the build when your pop is large enough to complete the build. This becomes even more important when you get to the really expensive builds like cathedrals and universities. You will get some unhappiness from whipping, but that can be controlled with luxes, specialists, and whipping the improvements that make citizens happy, like temples, colosseums and caths.

I believe it was gmaharriet01 that we played at Emperor as the Mongols 100K culture using Feudalism and no-research throughout the game. I was the least experienced player on the team, but got a lot of help from people like Scoutsout and Whomp. Let me know if you'd like the link.

 

[mr_2_you]

it's my understanding that we won't be a feudal civ forever, thank goodness.

 

[Elephantium]

Why wouldn't we stay feudal until the end of the game?

Also, I think we should expand mostly north and east. We can kill the Ottomans once we're starting to feel pressed for space.

Finally...I don't think we can mass-produce settlers for the revolution. The barbarians are too thick on the ground, and our revolution is coming too soon.

 

[CommandoBob]

Why wouldn't we stay feudal until the end of the game?

Tribute has some detailed thoughts on that >>here<<, Post #44 of this thread, where he discusses some long range goals.

Biggest reason to change: cash flow. We'll try to have each of the five culture buildings in each city (temple, library, cathedral, university and colosseum), which means a whole lot of gold for upkeep.

We can pop-rush these building in Feudalism, but we'll reach a point we'll need to change to Republic/Democracy to pay for their maintenance.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Why wouldn't we stay feudal until the end of the game?

I might stay feudal that long, but at some point we may need to change to a government that allows cash-rushing because later units and builds become tough to do with whipping, and it just seems to me like a republic has a similar city pattern (wider-spacing in low corruption areas, tighter in high corruption areas). I think whips are fine for libraries and temples, but cathedrals and colosseums are alot more shields, even with short-rushing. Anyway, thanks for allowing me to join this for however long I can be a part of this SG, glad to hang with such good players!

 

[CommandoBob]

We can also have a city or two as a worker pump, and send those workers to the boonies to add to the outer cities, and then whip that new citizen.

 

[Elephantium]

Revolution on turn 5 of my set
5 turns of anarchy
I'll finish playing tomorrow.

 

[Elephantium]

Pre-turn:

Rename offenbach to Offenbach. I can't stand city names that aren't capitalized.

Le sigh, HFH is still out of phase. I need to make another post detailing how that works, don't I?

Switch Georg Hajdu to a Granary - we STILL don't have one there!

IT:

Lots of barbs move. One horse suicides vs. a spear at Mahler.
RW: Archer->Archer
HFH: Settler->Settler
Ernst Richter: Archer->Archer
Herbert Brun: Spear->Archer

Turn 1 (130 BC):

Army > Arab archer (1-0)
Archer > Archer (2-0)
Archer > Barb horse
Switch Helmut Lachenmann and Moritz Eggert to Archers.
Sci slider to 90%, Feudalism still done in 4.

Looks like we won't be able to mass produce settlers before the revolution.

Sell Monarchy to
Ottomans for 61 gold
India for 21 gold
England for 49 gold
America for 13 gold
Japan for 64 gold
Celts for 36 gold
Mongols for 7 gold

Set up HFH to run smoothly (citizens on 3 BGs plus one watered wheat)

IT:

A barb suicides vs. our spear
Helmut Lachenmann: Archer->Worker
Gustav Mahler: Worker->Treb

Turn 2 (110 BC):

Archer disperses a barb camp.
MM HFH (move new citizen from forest to watered wheat).

IT:

Michael von Biel's defender is killed by a barb horse. We lose 52 gold.
Barb horse suicides vs. Archer.
RW: Archer->Worker (to drop it to a happy size 6 again)
Russians are building the Hanging Gardens

Turn 3 (90 BC):

Kill a few barbs.
MM HFH (move one of the citizens from wheat to mined grass)
Lux slider to 10%, preventing a riot in Moritz Eggert.

IT:

3 barb horses suicide vs. our troops.
RW: Worker->Worker
Helmut Lachenmann: Worker->Worker
Felix Draeseke: Archer->Worker
George Frederick Handel: Worker->Treb
Lots of people start on the Hanging Gardens

Turn 4 (70 BC):

Kill a few barbs.
MM HFH (move the new citizen from the forest to the watered wheat)
Heinz Warner Zimmerman founded. Making Harbor.

IT:

Celts complain about our exploring warrior. We move automatically.
Feudalism->Theology
Revolution! Doh, this makes Civil Disorder in lots of places.
Sigh and sigh again. This ruins the settler factory in HFH.

Turn 5 (50 BC):

Make lots of adjustments all over the empire.
5 turns of Anarchy.

IT:

Celts and Mongols complain about our explorers. We apologize.
A Barb warrior suicides vs. our archer.
AIs are building wonders.
Order restored throughout the Empire.

Turn 6 (30 BC):

eArcher > Arab archer (3-0)
Move troops. The siege of Medina begins next turn!

IT:

Barb warrior suicides vs. our archer in Dietrich.
AIs are building wonders.

Turn 7 (10BC):

We disperse a barb camp.
Army kills two Spears, and Medina is ours! (5-0). When anarchy is over, it will start building Temple (placeholder).
The Arabs have been destroyed. Good riddance.

IT:

Two barbs suicide vs. our archers; one barb kills a weakened archer.
We get a palace expansion. New porch!

Turn 8 (10AD):

Zzz...

IT:

Horses are now roaded.

Turn 9 (30 AD):

Create Ludwig van Beethoven on the coast near Eberlin. Making Harbor.

IT:

We are now a Feudalism!

Turn 10 (50AD):

Switch RW to Horseman.
HFH should get one of its wheats mined.
JS Bach needs MM next turn (after its Harbor completes).

We can trade with the Netherlands for Dyes and Wines via sea lanes.

The save

Spoiler :

 

[CommandoBob]

Looks good, Tusker. We can make Maces (I think) and we are Feudalistic, so we can still whip when needed. And only 5 turns of anarchy, too, very nice.


Random Thoughts

Forbidden Palace Location
Now that we are Feudal, where is the best place for our Forbidden Palace? For I see we have three settlers that will complete next turn. Knowing where the FP will be helps us to know where to plant new cities.

Medina
Uh, why a temple in Medina? A library would be cheaper (40 shields) and more useful. Not complaining; I just don't know what you had in mind.

Iron
The Iron near Kufah is roaded, but since it is outside our borders, it is connected? I don't think so, which means we can't use it until we build the library in Kufah, plant a city nearby or convert a worker into 40-turn colony (34 for the library to complete and then a few more turns for the city expansion from Kufah). Waiting for the library is the best long term solution, but that means we can't really upgrade our military for a rather long time.

Which Way Do We Go?
Which way is our next big push? Up the coast and through the Ottomans and the grasslands? Or through the mountains and deserts that no one wants? I favor pushing through the Ottomans, since the deserts and mountains and hills will be vacant for a long time to come.

 

[CommandoBob]

Roster:
CommandoBob
Tribute - skipped until mid-August
SipTheSoup - skip this turnset
Elephantium - just played
mr_2_you - UP!
ansar - on deck
TheOverseer714 - warming up