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Coronavirus 4

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by amadeus, Aug 10, 2020.

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  1. ShogunGrumpyBear

    ShogunGrumpyBear Chieftain

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    Yeah true but that's the thing, years of development. When we talking about only months of development, maybe a year at most, then it's a high risk or high reward thing. It's either going to work straight out of the gate or nothing will work, which will set the world back years then probably.

    The only true things that can help settle this is either this just disappears which it won't, it becomes like the common cold in a few years which I heard some say or we get a vaccine. Otherwise we're in trouble I guess.
     
  2. r16

    r16 not deity

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    so , let me see , didnt Voice of Russia say they would do 500 000 shots of vaccine by next March , for like 15 dollars . And didn't that lead to Oxford declaring theirs would be 4 or 5 dollars and it would be produced in Mexico , because don't we all know that if 300 000 die in the US , we are looking at 450 000 in Brazil alone , and likewise in the rest of the continent , where Cuba still has some traction ?
     
  3. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    Again, nobody is going to give this vaccine to millions of people before next stage of trials is complete.

    It will be tested on 2000 subjects for the next three months. Whether it will be given to people or not will be determined by results of this test. All kinds of things may go wrong, but you can't claim it doesn't work until tests are competed and results published.

    I wrote that it's not always worthy to spend years on development something when cheaper and faster solution may work just as well. What exactly "not true" there?

    So it's a reasonable approach to investigate, it may work and Russia is actually investigating it... ok.
     
  4. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    Strange. From what I'm reading now, prof. Chuchalin resigned from bioethic commission in health ministry because he was offered the same position in Russian Academy of Science.
     
  5. MrCynical

    MrCynical Deity

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    That would be something, although it would still lack most of phase 3 and long term testing. Snag is the fact the approval for the vaccine has been given before the test and without evidence that it's safe. And in science, burden of proof is on showing it works, not proving that it doesn't.

    The old story about space pens and pencils was the bit that wasn't true. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Cheaper and faster is nice if it works just as well. But again we're back to the need to show that it works as well. Which has not been done.

    I've no problem with the science adenovirus approach. Well, beyond some technical issues about how common immune responses to the vector are. But it isn't some magic approach which makes it faster or unnecessary to safety test it.

    The reports I've read have him repeatedly criticizing the inadequate safety testing, attempting to block the approval of the unproven vaccine, and then resigning when the approval was pushed through anyway. And his objections are entirely in line with other medical experts in the WHO and elsewhere. Maybe I'm just living up to my username, but I have my doubts about the claim he's just moving to some new position (and I haven't seen anything claiming that myself).

    Now, to be clear - I would really like to see an effective vaccine, wherever it comes from. But I do not like to see an unproven candidate with no published safety information being plugged as "The first approved Covid vaccine". Which is exactly what is being done on the website they've just put up: https://sputnikvaccine.com/
     
  6. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    My buddy I played basketball (outdoors) tested positive, his brother who stayed with him @ his apartment for a week tested negative. I got a free test the Devil Ray's stadium parking lot a week ago, I suspect I'm negative as I have no symptoms.
     
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  7. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    Approval only makes it possible to start mass production earlier. So when phase 3 is complete, there will be few millions of doses already available.

    I said it's not worth to spend millions on space pen if pencil can do the same much cheaper.
    I didn't say anyone actually spent them and not sure what you are so eagerly disproving in every post since then.

    It's according to his own words. If he is resigning in protest, it's strange that he moves to the same post in another governmental structure.
     
  8. MrCynical

    MrCynical Deity

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    I might buy that, if it wasn't for the line taken in their announcements, on their website, and the rather desperate naming it "Sputnik". I'm not really seeing it's necessary to start inaccurately spinning it as "the first Covid vaccine" just to get mass production started. Scale up of production of other candidates seems to be managing fine without premature approval.

    :dunno: There is precisely nothing about him getting a new post in English that I can find. I accept there may be more info in Russian. But whatever the official reason for his sudden departure, his statements have been very clear that this approval was a gross breach of medical ethics. A verdict which has been echoed by plenty of other medical experts elsewhere.
     
  9. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    It's called advertising. 18 countries already expressed interest in obtaining and producing it.
    Risky approach, but the authors seemingly estimate chances to successfully pass stage 3 as rather high.
     
  10. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    It could have been a nice little earner but because of the rush and secrecy most reputable state healthcare won't buy it.
     
  11. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Bloody goddamn arse feces.

    The French government has upped the level of my region (among others) from green to orange, and the Dutch government has tightened travel restriction to these areas.
    I have a friend over who will tomorrow fly back and will need to self-quarantine afterwards. He has been postponing meetings for like a half hour and has tried to organize home delivery of groceries, but apparently there are no time slots available.
    I was meant to fly on Wednesday. On Friday I was planned to be a witness at a friends wedding. Luckily only the signing at the municipality, and nothing big. I had asked like 20 people on 2 different locations to celebrate my birthday a few days later. My girlfriend (we just got back together again) had booked a hotel and bought nice lingerie.
    Nothing of this is happening now. The wedding will work without me, only one witness per side is required, and there is one more. But I am sad to miss it. And my GF nearly cried on the phone.
    I hate it so much.
     
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  12. tuckerkao

    tuckerkao King

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    The whole coronavirus vaccine race became political mainly because President Trump tried to hurry the production companies up to help his re-election chance.

    In order for a vaccine candidate to be really considered safe and effective, 75% immunity for 6 months minimum must be achieved, best if higher. Dr. Fauci already warned that if the political officials kept skipping the safety measures for reopenings and vaccine qualifications, the massive death may be inevitable.
     
  13. Lemon Merchant

    Lemon Merchant Disinterested Observer Moderator

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    I noticed on the news that the big orange idiot now has a doctor for his Coronavirus briefings who agrees with every stupid thing he says. Did Fauci get booted and I missed it in the news?
     
  14. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    Fauci hasn't lost his job, just he and Birx haven't been positive enough, so Dr Scott Atlas (Is that really his name!] who isn't an expert (at least on this) but is prepared to say the right things on Fox gets put on the task force.
     
  15. Lemon Merchant

    Lemon Merchant Disinterested Observer Moderator

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    Ahhh. Thank you. I am less confused. Shame that the American people will now be getting even more compromised information.
     
  16. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    And it will continue until November 3.
     
  17. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    January even if Trump loses.
     
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  18. tuckerkao

    tuckerkao King

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    It really won't matter that much as how many deaths the United States have now. All I know is that the total deaths will raise well above 200,000 by Nov 3, very possible around 250,000 given that the condition won't get worse.

    President Trump claimed that he has saved lives, cannot say that until an effective vaccine is available. Don't claim a victory while the game isn't over yet.
     
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  19. Velegon

    Velegon Chieftain

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    Hasn't stopped Republican administrations before to prematurely claim victory - and Trump is much much more likely to do so more than W. Bush was.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missi...er,the Mideast, the name took on strong irony.
     
  20. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    USA number 1 suckers!!!!
     
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