Cultural appropriation

NovaKart

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I've read a couple of articles where people complain about cultural appropriation, which is basically when a white person adopts something from another culture. Examples could be yoga, eastern or American Indian spirituality, fashion from another culture, maybe even martial arts. Some people are offended by this. I can understand it in some contexts, like American Indians disliking it when new age people adopt ther spirituality or when someone doesn't really care about learning the culture and just uses it superficially or when someone does not acknowledge where it came from.

However the article below seems to object to white women doing belly dancing period, regardless of how it's done and even claims its doing great damage to Arab women. I could maybe understand a little if she thought bellydancing was a cheap charicature of Arab women but she does not object to Arab women doing it. Below is the article.

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/04/why_i_cant_stand_white_belly_dancers/

Google the term “belly dance” and the first images the search engine offers are of white women in flowing, diaphanous skirts, playing at brownness. How did this become acceptable?
The term “belly dance” itself is a Western one. In Arabic, this kind of dance is called Raqs Sharqi, or Eastern dance. Belly dance, as it is known and practiced in the West, has its roots in, and a long history of, white appropriation of Eastern dance. As early as the 1890s in the U.S., white “side-show sheikhs” managed dance troupes of white women, who performed belly dance at world’s fairs (fun trivia: Mark Twain made a short film of a belly dancer at the 1893 fair). Many white women who presently practice belly dance are continuing this century-old tradition of appropriation, whether they are willing to view their practice this way or not.
Growing up in the Middle East, I saw women in my community do Raqs Sharqi at weddings and parties. Women often danced with other women, in private spaces, so that this dance was for each other. When they danced at house parties with men in attendance, the dynamic shifted. When women danced for women alone, there was a different kind of eroticism, perhaps more powerful, definitely more playful, or maybe that’s how it felt to me, as a child and teenager, wary of men’s intentions. At weddings the dancing was celebratory and flirty and beautiful, something a professional dancer would come in to do, and something that everyone else would continue engaging in. If there was a drummer present, all the better. At my wedding, I was my own dancer. I hired a band that specialized in Arabic music and danced with my family and friends, not all of whom were Arab.
One of the most awkward occurrences for me when I go out to an Arabic restaurant is the portion of the evening when the white belly dancer comes out. This usually happens on weekends, and I’ve learned to avoid those spaces then, but sometimes I forget. The last time I forgot, a white woman came out in Arab drag — because that’s what that is, when a person who’s not Arab wears genie pants and a bra and heavy eye makeup and Arabic jewelry, or jewelry that is meant to read as “Arabic” because it’s metallic and shiny and has squiggles of some kind — and began to belly-dance. She was not a terrible belly dancer. But she was incredibly thin and didn’t remind me, in any way, of Tahia Karioca or Hind Rostom or my absolute favorite Raqs Sharqi dancer, Fifi Abdo. Abdo used to dance in the expected bra and skirt but later danced mostly in robes that were somewhat shapeless and more traditional — a kind of relaxed housewear- streetwear dress that folks in Egypt rock daily. There are videos of her in these robes dancing at weddings and smoking sheesha while she dances. When I am having a particularly lousy day, I watch this video of her and dance along.

At a movie theater in Cairo in 2007, I argued with a male friend about why the lead actress wore a strange, baggy dress underneath a bra-and-skirt dancing ensemble. He suggested that she was uncomfortable with her body; I suggested that the country was becoming more conservative and she was too much of a media darling to appear with her skin exposed. Years later, the revolution happened, or tried to happen, and when the Muslim Brotherhood took over, and Western news outlets began publishing stories that claimed belly dancing was a dying art. Tell that to the women on the streets and on rooftops and in bedrooms and living rooms and weddings dancing their hips off. (See this video, for example, of actual working-class Egyptian women of all sizes and ages dancing in the streets.) The one interesting thing about these stories is that they reported that Western, or white women, were beginning to take over gigs in Egypt. These women moved there out of an obsession with belly dance and are now appropriating it from local dancers.
“It’s Arab face,” my friend Nadine once said, pointing at an invitation from a white acquaintance of hers. The invitation was printed on card stock and featured the woman and a dozen of her white friends dressed in Orientalist garb with eye makeup caked on for full kohl effect and glittery accessories. We wanted to call these women up and say, “How is this OK? Would you wear a dashiki and rock waspafarian dreads and take up African dance publicly? Wait,” we’d probably say, “don’t answer that.”
The most disturbing thing is when these women take up Arabic performance names — Suzy McCue becomes Samirah Layali. This name and others like it make no sense in Arabic. This, in my estimation, completes the brownface Orientalist façade. A name. A crowning. A final consecration of all the wrongs that lead up to the naming.
Women I have confronted about this have said, “But I have been dancing for 15 years! This is something I have built a huge community on.” These women are more interested in their investment in belly dancing than in questioning and examining how their appropriation of the art causes others harm. To them, I can only say, I’m sure there are people who have been unwittingly racist for 15 years. It’s not too late. Find another form of self-expression. Make sure you’re not appropriating someone else’s.
When I have argued, online and in person, with white women belly dancers, they have assured me that they learned to dance from Arab women and brown women. This is supposed to make the transaction OK. Instead, I point out that all this means is that it is perfectly all right with these teachers that their financial well-being is based on self-exploitation. As a follow-up, white belly dancers then focus on the sisterly and community aspect of belly dance. They claim that the true exploiter of belly dancing is Hollywood, and the Egyptian film industry, which helped take belly dancing out of women’s homes and placed it directly under the male gaze. Here, the argument white belly dancers try to make ignores the long history of white women’s appropriation of Eastern dancing and becomes that this, the learning and performance of belly dance, is not about race and appropriation, but about gender and resisting the patriarchy and how all of us belly dancing together is a giant middle finger to men and their male gaze-y ways.
But, here’s the thing. Arab women are not vessels for white women to pour themselves and lose themselves in; we are not bangles or eyeliner or tiny bells on hips. We are human beings. This dance form is originally ours, and does not exist so that white women can have a better sense of community; can gain a deeper sense of sisterhood with each other; can reclaim their bodies; can celebrate their sexualities; can perform for the female gaze. Just because a white woman doesn’t profit from her performance doesn’t mean she’s not appropriating a culture. And, ultimately, the question is this: Why does a white woman’s sisterhood, her self-reclamation, her celebration, have to happen on Arab women’s backs?
 
The problem isn't really cultural appropriation. We have appropriated so much its hard to even notice most examples, particularly in language.

I think the real problem is that many recent cultural approciations are very commercialised, such as yoga.
 
Yeah it's more the commercialisation and trivialisation of another people's deeply held traditions that is the problem.

I didn't really like that belly dancer article. But then I also wasn't a huge fan of this WaPo response: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ant-stand-asian-musicians-who-play-beethoven/. On balance, I'm probably closer to Volokh's view than to Jarrar's view, but really, it irritates me when Westerners treat foreign cultures and traditions as nothing more than themes for parties or costumes to dress up in. Trivialising deeply held beliefs and traditions is just plain rude.


This whole thing is very click-baity though.
 
Yeah it's more the commercialisation and trivialisation of another people's deeply held traditions that is the problem.

I didn't really like that belly dancer article. But then I also wasn't a huge fan of this WaPo response: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ant-stand-asian-musicians-who-play-beethoven/. On balance, I'm probably closer to Volokh's view than to Jarrar's view, but really, it irritates me when Westerners treat foreign cultures and traditions as nothing more than themes for parties or costumes to dress up in. Trivialising deeply held beliefs and traditions is just plain rude.


This whole thing is very click-baity though.

"Trivializing" traditions is not an evil white-male-Western thing, it's a human thing. Brazilian indians would often copy all sorts of Portuguese traditions, including Catholic ceremonies, in a way totally devoid of the spiritual meaning they had for the Portuguese.

That's what people do. When they see something they find interesting they tend to copy it, but they won't ascribe the same significance as the people who they are copying from. It's basically the most human behavior there is.
 
That whole article is poison.
There is nothing wrong in trying out cultural practices from different lands.

@Mise, I don't see much wrong with trivalising deeply held beliefs and traditions. I'm happy for the Germans to mock our tea drinking, monarchy and parliament.
 
"Trivializing" traditions is not an evil white-male-Western thing, it's a human thing. Brazilian indians would often copy all sorts of Portuguese traditions, including Catholic ceremonies, in a way totally devoid of the spiritual meaning they had for the Portuguese.

That's what people do. When they see something they find interesting they tend to copy it, but they won't ascribe the same significance as the people who they are copying from. It's basically the most human behavior there is.

That whole article is poison.
There is nothing wrong in trying out cultural practices from different lands.

@Mise, I don't see much wrong with trivalising deeply held beliefs and traditions. I'm happy for the Germans to mock our tea drinking, monarchy and parliament.

I don't think we're using the same words in the same way here. First of all, I don't think I mentioned "evil white-male-Western thing" at all; as I said, I'm closer to Volokh's view than to the one presented in the OP, where it is indeed wonderful for people to experience other cultures and have those cultures enrich their lives. I don't think people should be discouraged from doing that; what they should be discouraged from doing is trivialising those cultures to the extent that it becomes disrespectful and mocking. Secondly, when I say "problem", I don't mean "egregious reprisal of 1950s style racism". I mean, as I said, "rude", or "impolite". Mocking someone else's deeply held beliefs is clearly rude and impolite. Similarly, I don't think this is a problem that requires massive amounts of discussion. The Salon article is already too many words to describe what in my view is a mild irritation rather than a serious issue of societal importance. Thirdly, when I say "deeply held beliefs or traditions", I'm not referring to tea drinking. I'm referring to things like religious practices or beliefs, such as (presumably) the ones Luiz refers to.

Separately, Luiz, you haven't actually defended the trivialising of others' deeply held traditions or beliefs: you've just said that non-Whites do it too. You go on to say that this is natural human behaviour. Fine, I agree with both of those things - it's not just white people that copy other cultures' traditions and beliefs, and it's perfectly natural to do so. Indeed, in most cases, copying other cultures is good. But there are some instances where copying a deeply held belief is not good: specifically, in instances where trivialising the belief is disrespectful to that belief, and imitation turns into mockery. As I said, mocking a belief is rude and impolite; this is true irrespective of who does it or why, or whether, more generally, in other instances, copying beliefs or traditions is perfectly fine and harmless.

I would have thought it would be easy to agree on this point at least: that mocking a deeply held tradition or belief -- or indeed, mocking another person or culture -- is, you know, rude.

EDIT: To put my position more succinctly: "This is bad when it mocks another culture, its people, its beliefs or its traditions; and it is bad to the extent that mocking another culture, its people, its beliefs or its traditions is bad."
 
cultural appropriation, which is basically when a white person adopts something from another culture. Examples could be yoga, eastern or American Indian spirituality, fashion from another culture, maybe even martial arts.

Wait, the people who get offended at white people doing yoga (or whatever) think that only white people are capable of engaging in this "cultural appropriation"? :lol:

What a bunch of racist hacks. What about Asians playing Beethoven? Africans playing football? Mexicans eating sandwiches??

No thought or action belongs to any culture. To think so is sort of idiotic.
 
I would have thought it would be easy to agree on this point at least: that mocking a deeply held tradition or belief -- or indeed, mocking another person or culture -- is, you know, rude.

I totally agree with that, but that's not what I was discussing. Mocking is rude, trivializing is human.
 
I totally agree with that, but that's not what I was discussing. Mocking is rude, trivializing is human.
It's entirely possible to trivialise something to such an extent that it makes a mockery of that thing. Whether it's human or not is irrelevant.
 
There's mockery, but there's also misrepresenting a cultural tradition. I think the point of the article in the OP (which I admit I didn't make it all the way through) was more that the belly dancing done in the West wasn't authentic, and just perpetuates misinformation about another culture.

As a trivial example of this, an American once asked me why Canadians don't know what ham is, referring to "Canadian bacon." My response was that Canadian bacon is an American invention ...
 
This is, I suppose, the great paradox of (one breed of) multiculturalism, which seeks both inter-cultural harmony and intra-cultural integrity. There's a food for thought anecdote about a white but self-describedly post-racial woman who goes out for a curry one evening, and feels very conflicted to be disappointed at being served by white people with cockney accents.
 
EDIT: To put my position more succinctly: "This is bad when it mocks another culture, its people, its beliefs or its traditions; and it is bad to the extent that mocking another culture, its people, its beliefs or its traditions is bad."

I understand this. I think.

However, I remember when Live of Brian came out, it was much castigated for allegedly mocking Christianity. My position at the time (which, although I'm not Christian, is deeply sympathetic to it) was that anything, like Christianity, that could be mocked in this way isn't of any true value; that Christianity is, in a sense, unmockable.
 
I don't agree that "mocking" that is 'bad', although i never like sinister motives, or downright cretinism in such attacks.

If one does not like those, he can just not care. I mean i never read anything by Aristophanes, and apart from the usual sex/wine orgy there another reason was his attacks on the main dramatic writers (Sophocles, Aeschylos and Euripides) along with Socrates. I did not read that despite knowing that other parts of his works were rather hugely innovative (eg he had an actor be outside of the play, and view it as a play, or one plot was the -comedic- private peace-treaty of an athenian citizen with Sparta :) ).

I dislike sarcasm when it is most of the work to begin with. And i have to assume that the modern satirists are a lot worse than Aristophanes, so i don't care about them either.

Some authors did present non-european ideas to a larger audience. A good example might be Hesse, in regards to indian religions (not sure how loyal to the original his reflections are held as). Moreover in the late 19th century there was a quasi-popular interest on the Arabian and general Levantine and Persian arts.

A closer example of other cultures focusing positively on a more distant to them, would be the western european examination of ancient Greek culture. In my view many great works of art came from that interest, in recent times up to WW1 mostly in England and France.
 
To the extend that she is offended by "Arab face," I think that's reasonable. However, the rest of the article is absurd.

There's a subtle kind of stereotyping going on here. If we follow the author's line of thought that white women shouldn't belly dance then what does that say about what Arab women can and cannot do? The implicit, inverse message is that Arab women should be limited to cultural practices that have been traditionally reserved for Arab women, or at least are not the province of other cultures. It is not an unreasonable extension of the author's logic to say that Arab women should not play softball because softball is a Western tradition.

Furthermore, the author's repeated statement that belly dancing is Arab is insufficiently inclusive. If belly dancing were reserved for Arab women then it would be barred to Persians, Turks, and Indians as well, all cultures that also have belly dancing traditions. I understand that the author is principally addressing white, Western belly dancers, but her assertions that belly dancing is Arab excludes other non-Arab cultures that also have that form of art. That sort of Arab ethnocentrism is problematic in her article.
 
The author to me seems to imply that cultural elements that have arisen in "white" cultures, such as German, English, or whatever, are amazing human achievements that are compatible with every other culture on Earth and should be shared because they're so awesome. So for example classical western music, pianos, football (soccer), halloween, billiards, and whatever else.

But cultural artefacts created by anyone else need to remain limited to that particular culture, because they do not carry with them this global appeal. They are inferior.

I find this line of thinking racist and inappropriate.
 
Wait, the people who get offended at white people doing yoga (or whatever) think that only white people are capable of engaging in this "cultural appropriation"? :lol:
Which is especially funny, because most Yoga you see in the west is the result of Indians copying Englishmen and Germans.
 
I think this whole "cultural appropriation" thing is pretty shaky ground. I can see where people might get a bit upset if something were blantantly and inauthentically commercialized, particularly if it were portrayed in a mocking way. I can't come up with a better example, so for example I can see why Kazakhs would find Borat offensive. It's so unauthentic that I'm not sure you could even call it cultural appropriation, but if you can, yeah, I get why it could be sensitive.

But beyond extreme cases like that? Cultures have been exchanging ideas for millenia. When ideas or practices are adopted, it's often not identical to how they were initially used. This isn't necessarily bad - it in turn leads to a wider variety of cultural practices. Saying that you can't adopt another culture's practices if they aren't authentic is like saying you can't serve Tex-Mex food in Texas because it isn't authentic Mexican, or that the Japanese are "appropriating" baseball by taking it from American culture and playing it with somewhat different rules.

But yeah, the whole article is pretty bad. The implication that people have only been borrowing elements of other cultures for a century, the implication that it's only an issue if white people are borrowing other people's culture (which is bad in two ways - it either is saying it's okay for other cultures to borrow ideas from 'white peoples' culture because it's superior, as warpus suggests in post 15, or that it's racist if white people are doing it but not vice versa, which is akin to saying that racism by whites is possible, but racism by others is not because it is 'reverse racism' and thus not actually racism and is okay). And of course the worst implication - that it's bad to borrow from other cultures in the first place and you should live completely within your native culture, because if you try to borrow from someone else's culture, you'll probably mess up and not be 100% authentic, which would be a horrible grievance. I don't think you'd find many people who would argue the world with really be better off without inter-cultural exchanges.
 
What an obnoxious article. Belly-dancing or yoga or African friggin' drumming doesn't "belong" to it's culture of origin & trying to shame people appreciating & interpreting the art or ritual of another culture should be appreciated.

"...These women are more interested in their investment in belly dancing than in questioning and examining how their appropriation of the art causes others harm."

:rolleye: to the 100th degree. How the **** does "white women" (ooh those she-devils them!) dancing hurt anyone??
 
That whole article is poison.
There is nothing wrong in trying out cultural practices from different lands.

@Mise, I don't see much wrong with trivalising deeply held beliefs and traditions. I'm happy for the Germans to mock our tea drinking, monarchy and parliament.

Poles also mock your tea drinking (just letting you know so you can be happy for us too).

And I noticed that you was mocking Russian in particular and other Slavic in general squatting in another thread.

But you should read the article "Health Benefits of the Natural Squatting Position" by Jonathan Isbit (google it).
 
Hmmm, 'Mericans should stop eating Chili con carne or tortillas then. Or sushi. Or drinking tea and coffee. Really.
 
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