Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

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I guess the chances of an economic crisis spreading to you increases when you have open borders, but I never looked into Rhye's implementation of it that specifically.

The embassy issue is only in the post-Byzantine implementation SVN revisions.
 
Could the democracy instabability bug be considered game killing? Also, is there anywhere I can read up on what all the UI things mean and new pages from the game? I'm used to playing Rise of mankind, a new dawn, and this UI is very, very different. Thanks.

Oh, and whats the SVN version, whats its benefits over the regular version, and how does I get it? Thanks and sorry for all the questions :D
 
That's my only guess to is by open borders? I mean with open borders, comes trade naturally right? I haven't really looked into Rhye's work on that either. If I can speak freely, I think your modmod is better than the original RFC in that you've incorporated so much more and made the game challenging. A few bugs, but hey, no mod ever comes squeaky clean right?

What's all this talk about SVN? I must've missed that.
 
Could the democracy instabability bug be considered game killing? Also, is there anywhere I can read up on what all the UI things mean and new pages from the game? I'm used to playing Rise of mankind, a new dawn, and this UI is very, very different. Thanks.
I'm not sure what you mean with your question is. Despite the name, this modmod isn't related to "A New Dawn" or RoM in general, it's an RFC modmod, and other than the additional tile stability display, there's not much changed to the interface.

That's my only guess to is by open borders? I mean with open borders, comes trade naturally right? I haven't really looked into Rhye's work on that either. If I can speak freely, I think your modmod is better than the original RFC in that you've incorporated so much more and made the game challenging. A few bugs, but hey, no mod ever comes squeaky clean right?
No regular game does, either ;) Anyway, my usual approach on things like that (and honestly on the stability system in general) is that Rhye knew what he was doing when implementing it, so a rework of the system is unlikely to come from me. The democracy switch bug was severe, of course, but a fix has been found already.

Oh, and whats the SVN version, whats its benefits over the regular version, and how does I get it? Thanks and sorry for all the questions :D
What's all this talk about SVN? I must've missed that.
Basically, the SVN contains my "work in progress folder", which means you can have every new feature I make before I officially release a new version, with the (likely) downside of bugs or destroyed playability because of only partially implemented aspects. See the first post for instructions on how to get these files, if you're interested.
 
You know what, don't worry about it. I'll just get the SVN version. I'll also see if I can disable embassies entirely if they don't work.
 
If you want to apply some of my fixes, but avoid all the problems that came with the introduction of Byzantium (like the embassy issue), you can also choose to update via SVN to a revision that came before that change.
 
I have found that playing civ with a small amount of imagination adds to the game immensely. In this post as well as the prologue to your story you talk about how the game treats civs as unified states even though they were actually confederations, however I think it is important to keep in mind that what the game is portraying is civilizations, not states. So in your example you talk about the HRE being a confederation not a state, however, using the common definition, ie a group with similar language, culture, shared traditions etc, it is most definitely a common civilization. (for more on the status of the HRE, read back in the thread. There has been much discussion and future plans for the HRE/Germany)

So we have a game where we are given control of a cultural group, and then are tasked with creating a state for that civ. RFC mechanics have given us the opportunity to portray that civ in a historical context but, and this is important, also allows es the ability to play out alt-historic scenarios. What Leoreth has tried to do, in part, with this mod is tweak the mechanics to help the probability of a historic scenario from playing out but more importantly, to enhance the balancing and gameplay aspects of the original mod. The choice is ours whether or not we choose to play it out historically or not, but more importantly, imo, the game allows for enough variety to keep the game fresh.

See, while I agree that the civs of the game represent cultures, not just unified countries, I see a litle discrepancy in the system. The game (and mod) recognizes that civs represents cultures, yet gives them the powers that only unified, highly centralized nations would possess. This issue is handled well with, say, India or Khmer, with the former representing the MANY, MANY kingdoms and principalities that the Indian subcontinent has been home to, and the latter representing the various small civs of the Indochina peninsula. The AI, in charge of these civs, maintains a good semblance of historical realism; despite being "united" in the game, neither really achieve the power that they could have if united in real life, because their power is sufficiently nerfed to begin with. The same generally applies to China, where I see the same ebb and tide of dynastic flow that characterized China in real life.

But to see Germany controlling everything from the border of France to Finland and at the top of the scoreboard, with Italy conquered or vassalized, and able to beat any European nation in a war, is ridiculous. This laughs in the face of history. The Holy Roman Empire was repeatedly brutalized by other countries, not the other way around. Take the 30 Years' War, or, as my history teacher once called it, the gang rape of the HRE by the rest of Europe.

I'm not calling for 100% determinism either- just realism, that's all. A few suggestions:
1) Shrink Germany's spawn area. Giving it all that space is ridiculous.
2) Remove a settler. And a few starting troops.
3) Establish an independent buffer zone between Russia and Germany to represent the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Make it fairly strong on the defensive side (i.e., lots of longbowmen) to prevent Russia or Germany from conquering it and taking all that juicy land.

As for Italy, I feel that it should either be nerfed considerably, or not spawn until 1861. It would be best for the area to be Independent, then be divied up amongst the nations of Europe until 1861, when it overthrows its foreign oppressors, as in real life.

One last word- I REALLY like this mod- it's all I play now, so don't take my words as being abrasive. They were a few minor suggestions, that's all.

If I may make a request,could you incorporate Panopticon's modcomp that allows for immigrants to America to bring their religion? I imagine it wouldn't take all that much coding, although I don't speak Python, so I could be wrong.

This would probably require more coding, but for a future release of your mod, Leoreth, I though this might be cool: Civilizations in Abundance
 
I've been playing DoC a lot lately, and I happen to notice that (congresses aside) European powers generally have little to no interest in Asia. Spain never conquers the Philippines, England rarely touches India, and the Dutch only occasionally colonize the Indies to any real extent. It's not really an issue with the game, but it does seem rather odd.
 
@Linkman:
I like to hear a good critique, so don't worry :)

On Germany becoming too powerful: I guess a lot of this has to do with the fact that the civilization (and it's military and productive coefficients) are designed to enable it to become the continental power it was during the 19th and early 20th century. While that's already an exaggeration, I think it's fine, because generally more exaggerated and therefore distinct civilizations provide for more variety and fun in gameplay. The thing is just that Germany spawns in the Middle Ages already, and nothing stops it from unfolding its military abilities until the times it's supposed to. This is just another aspect that might be solved by my intended split into two civilizations, so all I can ask you is to wait until I get there.

On Italy: There were some nerfs to them already which will be part of the next version. I'd still like to see them collapse or being conquered more often, but it's better to have the current changes tested by more people.

On Panopticon's mod: It's no problem to incorporate something like that, I just thought it isn't that important until now.

On Jarkov's mod: Let me phrase it this way, I certainly won't merge it in here. There will be additional civilizations in the future (Byzantium's still being worked on currently, Korea will certainly be next), but I'll do them all myself from scratch. I can also exclude some of Jarkov's civs (Sumeria, Zulu, Native Americans) already.

@Gruekiller:
I've already tried to help the AI there with the abolishment of continent borders, sadly with no positive results. I can't think of anything short of scripting to help with that issue.
 
Well I was playing a game, the SVN newest version, and heres how it went (love it by the way.)

If you feel like skipping the story/wall of text, you can go right to questions and comments lol.

I started out as Greece. Had to restart 5 times because the Roman Conquerors always...conquered me. So I placed enough men along the land to force them to spawn 1 tile left of where Constantinople should me settled. I then had a city nearby where they attacked, failed, I countered and won. Then as I was finally expanding into an empire, here comes Byzantium (Which I had no idea you included) and it made 5 out of 6 cities of mine flip. I was left with Sparta. So then I was declared war on from everyone for being weak, and eventually I switched to Spain as soon as I could (Good timing too, next turn I used the world editor to look at Greece and all 3 of my remaining cities were either captured of razed!)

So now as Spain I basicly held my land, got in 3 wars with Portugal and won them, forced them onto 2 tiles of the mainland. For some reason they refuse with all their might to capitulate. So then they capitualte to France (come on...) and eventually France goes to war with me as I fall behind on technology (because no one will trade with me. No one.) They take my capital by surpirse while I'm steamrolling into France, and I'm exiled into England (Which again, I had no idea could happen, so this is like an adventuer to me :D) So as England I muster up all of the army and navy, and attack Spains capital to take it back for me.

The game crashed. :/

So some questions and comments:
How do I get nations to become my vassal as they always would rather die?
How do I get them to trade tech?
How do I not fall so far behind on tech (and generally I'm a good player...)

And just reporting a CTD when you get back from exile.
 
Great! I've never experienced being exiled before, so no idea what could've happened there. Seems like an RFC bug though.

The Roman conquerors may have to be toned down when a human is involved (either as invader or defender), I've also experienced they make your life too hard / the Roman's life too easy.

On Byzantium, they are not finished, and shouldn't spawn when Greece is still strong. It's simply not fun when a new civ takes your whole core.

On your questions:
1. It's difficult. If you really want to make another civ your vassal by war, don't do so via the usual Civ method of conquering as much as possible (when you conquer a certain percentage of cities an immediate collapse may be triggered). It's better to conquer only a few cities, preferably outside of the enemy's core and as slow as possible.
2. Vassalize them :lol: Seriously though, it depends. Researching a tech nobody else knows might give you a better trading position, if the AI is holding back the tech because it wants to keep a monopoly on it ("We don't want to trade this away just yet"), all you can do is wait until its more widespread. The general approach to tech trading should be to research advanced techs yourself and use trading to get those you skipped, like in usual Civ.
3. Depends on which civilization you're playing. Some are intended to have a harder time to compete, though it should be possible to become tech leader for all European civs. My favorite strategy is to beeline Optics -> Guilds -> Liberalism and then choose Astronomy as free tech to get early universities and observatories coupled with more happiness through far distance trade. If you've got problems with classical civs, I've experienced that establishing contact with Europe/Asia respectively and the subsequent tech trading helps a lot. Maybe I can offer better tips for your concrete situation :)
 
I'll be quite honest, if its possible, I don't know how to load an autosave, but since my game crashed thats really the only nearby save I have for that game. I'm going to enable the python log thing now because I honestly didn't think I could be useful, but since exiling should be so rare I might be able to help with this save :P

I was trying to vassal Ethiopia and Portugal. Ethiopia by being nice and giving them what they wanted even though they were always weaker then me (they repayed me by converting to Islam 5 turns later and declaring war on me for -12 Heathens) and I always held Portugal with there capital city, I never really did anything to hurt them except that my culture slowly consumed them since they were only making units.

If you tell me how to get access to my auto save, I'll drop it here and let you examine the situation if you'd like!

Also the tech I wanted was gunpowder, everybody had it, including my good buddy England, but no one would trade it.

Edit: Just remembered, no World Congresses occured during this game (although they did with the regular Rhyes and fall) andd....

bollocks. I forgot. Its one more thing, I'll post it when I remember it again.

I also think you should encorporate advanced nukes and espionage into this mod, since I was unable to steal any techs and barely do anything spy wise, and in a different game (regular Rhyes) I made about 30 ICBM's, but if I'm making that many nukes I should be able to do more then hurt 4 French cities...
 
I attempted to play the autosave again and it failed. When I declare war on France and invade the city, I hear the war drums for (spain I assume) going against France and all of his defensive pact buddies, and then probably russia helping spain (since we had a defensive pact).
 
I've been playing DoC a lot lately, and I happen to notice that (congresses aside) European powers generally have little to no interest in Asia. Spain never conquers the Philippines, England rarely touches India, and the Dutch only occasionally colonize the Indies to any real extent. It's not really an issue with the game, but it does seem rather odd.

I caught this as Japan, when I saw the Germans settle Laos, I went insane. :lol:

P.S: With 1.64, my current game.

I changed the map to make those little islands more attractive...
 

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So basically replace jungle with forest?
 
... That is the single most beautiful thing I've seen in my entire life.

I thought so too!

So basically replace jungle with forest?

Pretty much, although I added some fish/crab in some spots, and replaced some peaks with hills. The last shouldn't make a difference as to AI settling, but it just makes the city a bit more profitable.

Leoreth, when can we expect the next release, or at least one without the Democracy bug?
 
So basically replace jungle with forest?

Can't recall what mod, but I saw this done in a different modmod.

EDIT: Actually, if Leoreth could implement an automatic change of jungle to forest in, say, the 1700s onwards, that might increase the chances of colonization.
 
... That is the single most beautiful thing I've seen in my entire life.

I could not agree more; PLEASE make those changes Leoreth. Also you did say that you would make some changes by mid-Feb, are any on the way? :p

Also I can't seem to change the capital or spawn cities, what could I be doing wrong? How do you do it?

PS Why is Batavia not shown on Java?
 
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