Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[fireclaw722]

No sadly I don't have the coding expertise to include stuff like RFCE resources (potatoes, tea, etc). What I included was from Panopticon's dynamic terrain mod (which is incorporated in RFCM:BWS).

Leoreth, in my current game America hasn't even spawned yet and Italy is researching Fission

Italy really needs a nerf.

For now I'm gonna see if I can get them to collapse via spies, before Italy fucs us all

There are games where Italy is a super-tech leader, and there are others when they find war with all of Europe and get slaughtered. Personally I've had games where I was fighting a modern war(tanks, aircraft carriers, battleships, etc) when America has just spawned, and other times America spawns and no one but the dutch have astronomy. No it doesn't happen often, but I like it as it's alternate history.

BTW, totally agree, if Italy survives and does well, it is a superpower(tech-wise, not land-wise as it usually vassalizes in my games).

 

[Linkman226]

There are games where Italy is a super-tech leader, and there are others when they find war with all of Europe and get slaughtered. Personally I've had games where I was fighting a modern war(tanks, aircraft carriers, battleships, etc) when America has just spawned, and other times America spawns and no one but the dutch have astronomy. No it doesn't happen often, but I like it as it's alternate history.

BTW, totally agree, if Italy survives and does well, it is a superpower(tech-wise, not land-wise as it usually vassalizes in my games).

In my opinion the best fix would be for Italy to remain Indie/ Barbarian like in vanilla RFC. Yes, that means France/ Germany will take over probably but guess what- that's exactly what happened in real life. Of course both (and Spain if they colonize Sicily like usual) would lose their Italian possessions when Italy spawned in 1861- or, even better, Italy will follow the same respawning rules of any other civ post-Nationalism, with the exception that if it has not yet spawned in 1861, it will autospawn.

As for my game...

Well after many bribes and MANY espionage points, Italy is currently being partitioned between Turkey (which is grabbing the cities Italy had earlier gotten from collapsed Germany) and France, which is pushing in from the north. The Manhattan project is now gonna take 500+ turns after the multiple turns of city unrest, unhappiness, sickness, and sabotage my spies caused. Oh and Ethiopia rebelled after I pushed Italy into the unstable range.

But that was a lot of hard work and if I had been, say, America rather than England, I would have spawned in a world where there was a full nuclearized Italy because, of course, no AI England could have managed the above.

Oh ya and the same goes for Germany-fortunately that collapsed of its own accord but if that doesn't happen the same thing as with Italy happens all over again- extreme tech lead.

 

[Leoreth]

Just curious, whats that ruin problem you mentioned?

Well, my intent is too have the Byzantines spawn in Constantinople which is usually already present in 330 AD. They should flip the city directly on spawn (like for example the Mamluks do in SoI if you're familiar with that mod) and not destroy it so that it would have to be refounded which would usually happen. For some reason though, Constantinople is displayed as ruins whenever I do this, although the city still exists. This even happens when Byzantium is brought to life before that flip, which I long thought was the reason for it.

On Italy: please wait for its adjustments until we can further see whether it needs to be nerfed.

 

[The Turk]

In my opinion the best fix would be for Italy to remain Indie/ Barbarian like in vanilla RFC. Yes, that means France/ Germany will take over probably but guess what- that's exactly what happened in real life. Of course both (and Spain if they colonize Sicily like usual) would lose their Italian possessions when Italy spawned in 1861- or, even better, Italy will follow the same respawning rules of any other civ post-Nationalism, with the exception that if it has not yet spawned in 1861, it will autospawn.

Could not agree more. I currently have it so that Renaissance Italy does not spawn, but that they only respawn in 1861; which IMO makes the game SOO much better, because than we can still see a HRE controlled Northern Italy or a French Savoy and a Spanish (or even Byzantine) Southern Italy/Sicily. And then of course Italy declares independence and all those foreign powers have to leave. It just makes so much more sense that way. But of course thats just my two cents

EDIT: @Leoreth
God speed fixing the Byzantines! Can't wait to see them in play!

 

[Ekolite]

For the most part Italy is divided by other powers like Germany and France. But sometimes they survive and they become quite powerful. I see no problem with this... It's called alternate history for a reason you know.

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, I think that's fine too (good to hear someone confirm my observations). The problem seems to be more that when they do survive, they become too powerful technology-wise.

 

[Leoreth]

Spoiler :

I hope you know what this means

Under normal circumstances, I would now start balancing them, but now I'm only going to enable them for 600 AD as well before releasing version 1.7. Fix is already in the SVN.

By the way, I guess I've managed to fix the Roman UP crash as well

 

[Linkman226]

NICE! Can't wait.

One a side note: Hinduism in Athens xD

EDIT: Oh and if you wanna keep Italy as spawning in the Medieval era it might also work to change the Spanish, German, French, and Byzantine war maps so they really go after those regions.

 

[Jusos2108]

GRRREAT!

Can't wait for 1.7 (too lazy to use SVN).

 

[Leoreth]

The 600 AD scenario causes some trouble Hope to get this fixed soon.

 

[Linkman226]

Figured out part of the problem with Italy- the UP is overpowered, especially with Rome having wonders to begin with. Observe:



As you can see, a ridiculous number of settled GP's.

 

[The Turk]

Yay! I'm so happy you fixed the Byzantine problem!
But could you add one Christian Missionary to spawn with them? Or even better yet have Christianity automatically spread to Constantinople?
Keep up the great work!

 

[Leoreth]

Figured out part of the problem with Italy- the UP is overpowered, especially with Rome having wonders to begin with. Observe:

View attachment 283676

As you can see, a ridiculous number of settled GP's.

Yeah, it's also probably due to the fact that in 3000 BC Rome builds too much wonders and settles a lot GPs. Maybe the UP should be limited to two free specialists per city ...

Yay! I'm so happy you fixed the Byzantine problem!
But could you add one Christian Missionary to spawn with them? Or even better yet have Christianity automatically spread to Constantinople?
Keep up the great work!

You can't imagine how happy I am The 600 AD scenario now works as well, everything is already in the SVN. Tomorrow I'll upload the new version for the rest of you.

Religious treatment for everyone else then in later versions / revisions. There will be a 1.71 soon anyway, I'm sure

 

[jammerculture]

I'm not sure I've ever experienced such excitement and FUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!! all at the same time. I am sorry to admit that I kind of hoped you wouldn't get it fixed until I could get a new computer.


On Italy: i ran many test games when you first included the civ in the mod and didn't notice as many problems with super Italy as people are claiming. Yes I occasionally had them survive and prosper outside of the medieval ages but more often then not (over probably close to fifty Turkey starts), I had a collapsed Italy, with France, Spain and Germany fighting over the ruins. Is that screen shot of a human controlled Italy? If so, it is very easy for a decent player to exploit any civs UP to create ridiculous experiences like that.

As well, my own games as Italy were some of my favorite ever, and I really feel that it's inclusion helps with the "super germany" issue as well as create a much more dynamic Europe. I can't wait to see how a properly balanced Byzantine adds to this.

All in all, some balancing might be needed but I am strongly opposed to doing away with Renaissance Italy entirely.


Anyway, congrats on rebuilding constantinople, I absolve you of any guilt if i now turn to a life of crime to finance my new computer.

 

[J. pride]

This is my first post, luv ur mod but had a few suggestions many of them already on ur todo list
Could u consider adding the following cities (600 ad)
Tisfun (Baghdad) because was the capital of the Persian and later the Arab empire, but many a times it is not founded by the arabs. Also you should add some resources around Baghdad to make it easier for it to become the largest (first over 1 mill) and most advanced city of the middle ages.
An independent city between China and Samarkand which can easily be conquered by the Chinese, Arabs or Mongols. This will help trade along the silk road.
Adrianopolis or Thessalonica to Byzantine. This will strengthen their hold on the balkans and help them survive. On a similar note, could you make it easier for the Arabs to conquer North Africa but strengthen Byzantine Europe. ( It is easy for a human player but the AI struggles with it espesially in the early game when it is supposed to conquer North Africa and settle Algeria and Morrocco)
Tunis to the Byzantine (or independents) because it is historical and also North Western Africa (Maghreb) is totally empty and needs atleast one city to signify vandal or Byzantine presence.
More independents in East Africa, West Africa (around Mali) and South-East Asia. They should eventually be conquered by Europeans.


Could you make certain Civs respawn like you did with the Italians
Persia as the Safavids with Islam as State Religion and new Historical Goals
Carthage as Morrocco with Islam
Ethiopia as Ethiopia with Christianity
India as Medieval Indian City States with Hinduism
Is it possible for u to take figureheads from Rfc Europe, Asia and Middle East and put them into the respawns. And also is it possible (and easy) to have a conquerers event for India (this way India does not have to be empty for the Europeans) and independents (which could be added) in South-East Asia and West and East Africa.

Wow that was alot, srry if i sound push or critical. Again, ur mod is one of the best around

 

[The Turk]

Welcome J.Pride to CFC!
And I can just say that most of your comments are already in progress, but have been stalled since Leoreth has been so busy lately just getting the Byzantines to work!

Ok, first test run of the Byzantines and all I can say is that they are WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY overpowered! They vassalized the Russians almost immediately after the Russians were born! It was quite amazing how fast and powerful they became
I would strongly suggest giving them a smaller army but giving them a cities in Spain, Sicily and one in the Balkans. That way their frontier can collapse (End of the Justinian Golden Age), and they can regrow, while fighting off the Arabians. Also I hope that for the earlier version 330 AD, they actually have the Sassinid Persians to fight with, their biggest contender before the invasion of Islam.

 

[Leoreth]

I'm not sure I've ever experienced such excitement and FUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!! all at the same time. I am sorry to admit that I kind of hoped you wouldn't get it fixed until I could get a new computer.


On Italy: i ran many test games when you first included the civ in the mod and didn't notice as many problems with super Italy as people are claiming. Yes I occasionally had them survive and prosper outside of the medieval ages but more often then not (over probably close to fifty Turkey starts), I had a collapsed Italy, with France, Spain and Germany fighting over the ruins. Is that screen shot of a human controlled Italy? If so, it is very easy for a decent player to exploit any civs UP to create ridiculous experiences like that.

As well, my own games as Italy were some of my favorite ever, and I really feel that it's inclusion helps with the "super germany" issue as well as create a much more dynamic Europe. I can't wait to see how a properly balanced Byzantine adds to this.

All in all, some balancing might be needed but I am strongly opposed to doing away with Renaissance Italy entirely.


Anyway, congrats on rebuilding constantinople, I absolve you of any guilt if i now turn to a life of crime to finance my new computer.

Haha, oh my, and I already had a bad conscience because I was stuck with this ruins issue for months

I agree with you on Italy, their spawn will definitely stay as it is. I'm still considering whether it's better to limit their UP (because its power varies a lot by how much wonders you inherit from Rome) or further finetuning their other coefficients like research speed etc.

This is my first post, luv ur mod but had a few suggestions many of them already on ur todo list [...]

Welcome to RFC! Thanks, much of that is already on my to do list somehow. I probably won't include that many cities (imo the Byzantines start with a lot already in the 600 AD scenario), but at least Tisfun is already due for one of the next sub-versions of 1.7 because I'll likely have to restructure the Arabian and Turkish civs now anyway. New respawns similar to Italy are also planned, but they're now far down my priority list.

Ok, first test run of the Byzantines and all I can say is that they are WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY overpowered! They vassalized the Russians almost immediately after the Russians were born! It was quite amazing how fast and powerful they became
I would strongly suggest giving them a smaller army but giving them a cities in Spain, Sicily and one in the Balkans. That way their frontier can collapse (End of the Justinian Golden Age), and they can regrow, while fighting off the Arabians. Also I hope that for the earlier version 330 AD, they actually have the Sassinid Persians to fight with, their biggest contender before the invasion of Islam.

Yeah, I already figured they would be too strong in 600 AD, especially their longbowmen, pikemen and crossbowmen need to be demoted one level. Do you think they have too many cataphracts as well?

Persia's strength in 330 AD varies, but if they're rather weak, there's usually a rather strong Babylonia to fight. And there's always the probability of a Roman civil war with their cousins in the west.

 

[The Turk]

Yeah, I already figured they would be too strong in 600 AD, especially their longbowmen, pikemen and crossbowmen need to be demoted one level. Do you think they have too many cataphracts as well?

Ya they do have perhaps one to many catphracts. I would recommend just have two for them at their capital. And the Byzantines NEED a city in Sicily, or else they aren't the Byzantines! There has to be some sort of Norman-Papal/Italian-Byzantine war!

Persia's strength in 330 AD varies, but if they're rather weak, there's usually a rather strong Babylonia to fight. And there's always the probability of a Roman civil war with their cousins in the west.

Ya that is the biggest problem, Persia's wavering strength. For the 3000 BC start, I would STRONGLY recommend tacking on some stability hits for the AI Babylon so we no longer see them lasting forever, because that should REALLY not happen. Like in other mods, once all their UHV dates expire start mounting the stability hits so they have a greater chance to collapse and all for a stronger Persia which can actually challenge the Byzantines pre-Islam.
As for the 600 AD campaign I would have there be some un-playable Persian's that fight hard against the Byzantines, but then collapse fast.
Also PLEASE get rid of Zoroastrianism in 600AD start, is that possible? Thats one big wasted religion right there.

 

[Opera]

Eager to get my hands on the new version. Been some time since I last played a DoC game

 

[Ekolite]

@The Turk: Why are you so keen to add unplayable civs? What's the point in including a civ that can't be played? And I personally like the times that Babylon survives. They shouldn't be made to deterministicly collapse in every game imo.