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Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Apr 19, 2010.

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  1. jammerculture

    jammerculture Prince

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    Instead of limiting number of specialists, maybe the power only works with medieval and later wonders, or classical wonder specialists will obsolete after certain tech/ renaissance age?
     
  2. The Turk

    The Turk Deity

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    No but the problem is that the Babylon ALWAYS stays alive, and have them alive for centuries is just plain ahistorical and boorish, and really needs to stop. Just like the Roman and Greek empires come to an end, so should the Babylonian Empire. So no I don't think that deterministic. I love non-playable civs because the mod creator can control how it works and functions, and can give the non-playable faction huge bonuses which other civs don't get, but then also allows the mod creator to destroy the civ at a certain date. Thats why a non-playable Persia putting pressure on the Byzantines from the East would be a good idea, and to do that, ONE way would be to have these non-playable Persians.
     
  3. lumpthing

    lumpthing generic lump

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    Hmm, I've been playing lots of games as Rome and I'd say about half the time Babylon has already collapsed by the time Rome has spawned. That seems like the right balance between deterministic and alternate history to me.
     
  4. fireclaw722

    fireclaw722 Imperial Guard

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    I agree here, as Italy was a bigger deal in the Renaissance era than in the later eras(even though it wasn't a unified state), see Italy's defeat against Ethiopia...

    On seperate note, I'm am so excited for the new release! I was getting bored of playing Road to War all day long. :crazyeye:
     
  5. Linkman226

    Linkman226 #anarchy

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    There's no physical way to get to Newfoundland by galley. And for some reason I can only manage to get to Iceland sometimes. Is the path to America only open to Vikings or something?
     
  6. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    The Italian UP only works during the Renaissance period anyway. The problem is just that the ingame Renaissance age is far longer than what is usually referred to as Renaissance, it also covers much of the Baroque era.

    Remember that you can cross ocean tiles that you control culturally ;)
     
  7. dcode147

    dcode147 Warlord

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    I couldn't agree with you more. I don't think it should be limited to non-playable civs however. Playable civs when controlled by the AI should get special bonus or two (such as production boosts, or more units upon spawn etc..) given the AI's inability to take advantage of their civ's strengths. This would allow us to consider features that would make the game more fun for human players and putting more of need to deal with deterministic factors on the part of the AI.

    Ex: When a human player controls Babylon, they don't have to be screwed over by a hard-coded nerfs and stability hits. The cheap nerfing and stability hits would only apply to AI-controlled Babylon some of the time.


    I also strongly think that AI civs should be much more affected by probabilistics. AI behavior is so similar from game to game that it is not useful to rely on their behavior alone as the randomizer in games. For instance, if you set Babylon's stability to take a hit if the civ has a stabiliy lower than x at year y, Babylon will always get or not get the bonus since its AI behaves so similarly all the time. Instead, for Babylon I think you need to make it such that:
    - if AI controls Babylon, Babylon will take stability hit and have weaker science and production 80% of time
     
  8. J. pride

    J. pride King

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    Leoreth are u making a 300 ad scenario
     
  9. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    No, when I say "in 330 AD" I mean the Byzantines in the 3000 BC scenario because that's when they spawn there.
     
  10. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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  11. Gruekiller

    Gruekiller Back From The Beyond

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  12. Bonci

    Bonci King

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    i think you forgot to export the mod before uploading it! it's full of svn files...

    awesome job btw :D
     
  13. Gruekiller

    Gruekiller Back From The Beyond

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    Yeah. I'm also having the SVN issue thingy.
     
  14. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Oh, yeah, sorry. Replaced the upload with an SVN free version. It's also considerably smaller :)
     
  15. dcode147

    dcode147 Warlord

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    Hey Leoreth, I didn't really get a chance to play it yet, just loaded a couple of turns.

    It seemed like the Arabs don't declare war on me when I tested out the Byzantines in 600AD. I didn't convert to Catholicism, maybe that's why they didn't hate me? I dunno.

    Jerusalem doesn't start with Christianity even though it contains the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Would it also be possible to also include some wonder like the Western Wall or something that's automatically built that
    -provides a large gold bonus (in addition to Church of Holy Sepulchre)
    -but provides +1 unhappiness
    -obsolete with some renaissance technology
    This allows Jerusalem to be a city that support and pay for itself (no matter who conquers it) prior to the Renaissance without the city needing very good tiles or a large population.

    Also is there some way of making it so that the Byzantines wouldn't be able to become the Catholic religious leader? I know the Turk mentioned it before, but it does seem a bit weird to play as the Byzantines and choose Catholicism as the religion.
     
  16. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Catholicism for Jerusalem will be due. Maybe the city should have Solomon's temple in 600 AD as well to represent the Wailing Wall? It's effect would be exactly the boost Jerusalem needs, especially for the Arabs with their 2-3 shrines.

    On Byzantium being Catholic, technically they were up until 1024, so having them spawn with Orthodoxy doesn't make much sense either. In an ideal world, Orthodoxy could replace Zoroastrianism for the 600 AD scenario, but this is technichally impossible and takes away from the idea that those two scenarios really are only different scenarios.
     
  17. Lord Ainsbirth

    Lord Ainsbirth Chieftain

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    Leoreth, thanks for your mod and your hard work!
    I really enjoy playing your mod... as soon as I'll finish at work I'll download it!!!
    Un saludo
     
  18. keli

    keli Prince

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    Some constructive feedback:

    1, I tried to play with byzantine and while greece was at full strenght I got most of its cities (with the starting flip) including athen + delphoi, Is this normal that byzantines take over all of greece when the romans are nowhere near to conquer it?
    2, in that game greece expanded into Ukraine, imo they should expand towards persia more
    3, it seemed impossible to get 5000 gold by 1000 AD, but I guess it was cuz I played on emperor
    4, As you can see(on the picture), most of north, north-east Africa + The Levant was destroyed by barbarians, could you adjust them a bit?


    The mod itself is awesome, I really like the Byzantines being a threat now.
     

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  19. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    That's great to hear. Have fun and don't forget to report your experiences here if you can :)

    1. Yeah, I didn't know how to handle that in the 3000 BC scenario, because Byzantium having to conquer them looks just as weird. I'm planning to avoid this by having the AI Byzantines only spawn when there's no Greece or at least some Roman presence, but this doesn't solve the question what to do when you're playing Byzantium ...
    2. Yeah, that's kind of annoying, and I've already tweaked their settler maps to make them do exactly what you're suggesting. Maybe I'll have to be more extreme on that.
    3. I usually only play and balance on Monarch, and in my first 600 AD test game I only failed the condition by roughly 100 gold (see below). The 330 AD start may be a lot harder because you start with less cities and more important, worse infrastructure (usually), I've yet to test that.
    4. What do you mean? Making the barbarians raze cities more rarely?

    Anyway, I've started properly testing the 600 AD Byzantines myself now. I chose the 600 AD scenario first because it's easier to balance because the starting conditions in 330 AD vary too much. I've quit the game in 1000 AD after I barely missed the first condition:
    Spoiler :


    My observations:
    1. Arabians don't flip any cities. I don't know why, because usually they did (maybe this was broken because the Byzantines aren't a minor faction anymore). I still started at war with them, but they were no real threat. Lost Hierusalem to them, but was quickly able to conquer it back after I've build some cataphracts. I'll see if I can reenable that mechanic and give them more starting units.
    2. There's not nearly enough military pressure. Arabia isn't powerful enough to threaten you, and there are next to no barbarians at the other borders of the empire. I'll implement more barbarian Camel Archers for North Africa (berbers) and more Horse Archers for the Balkans (Bulgars, Cumans etc.).
    3. The starting military is appropriately weak, which would be a challenge if there were any enemies to threaten you. The other problem is just that Anatolia is insanely productive even without infrastructure, which makes it easily possible to get a formidable cataphract army before your enemies can build themselves up. So I think I'll remove some wheat there and the seafood from Trapezus.
    4. Cataphracts rock (totally forgot about that because I rarely play BtS anymore), but Camel Archers are good at countering them so they wouldn't be overpowered if you couldn't build that much of them.
    5. The first goal is fine in 600 AD on Monarch. As the screenshot shows, I only barely failed it (got only one merchant because of Alexandria's scientist spam). The second goal might be too easy because Constantinople was never challenged in either category from the get-go. Maybe it's better to demand a fixed size and number of culture points?
    6. Byzantium's got a lot of trouble stability-wise, which is good imo. Part of the reason is that I neglected building up decent infrastructure (no time training workers), but still. Alexandria declared independence somewhere in the 10th century, which finally caused some trouble.
     
  20. Soujya

    Soujya Chieftain

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    I just started a game on the new version as Arabia (3000 b.c. start) and Islam founded in Ur the same turn it flipped.

    Weirdness.

    This was marathon speed btw.
     
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