Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[dragodon64]

So who do you mean to represent with two civilizations? In my opinion, the current Indian civ represents exactly Magadha/Maurya/Gupta/Pala etc., .i.e. the North Indian polities.

I'm not saying it doesn't, I just think that the current India should become a Kingdom of Magadha/Mauryan Empire, and a new Indian civ, such as the Dilli Sultanate/Mughal Empire that was suggested could be added.

One thing that I think is very much necessary to fix India up for two civs is to correct the horrid terrain.

The Indus and the Ganges have been massive centers of subsistence of commercial agriculture for millenia, yet one is half marsh and the other is half jungle. While some jungle should remain on the Ganges, the lower half of the Indus should be all flood plain.

Also, the subcontinent produces more wheat than rice? Punjab and Sindh produce a lot of wheat, but in the most of the rest of the subcontinent, rice is the staple food and main crop. There should be something like 3-4 rice in all, maybe removing a banana to do so.

I think the shape of the subcontinent would be better represented if land tiles were added east of the Deccan spices and south of the banana and spice in Bengal. One of the added rice really should be right in the Ganges delta.

If places like Syria and much of the Libyan coast qualify as not desert, then Goa and interior Maharashtra (the tile with the cotton) certainly are not deserts either.

Gujarat is not a jungle. And if any part of India has cotton, it should be Gujarat and Sindh (preferably 1 in each). Up until the British diverted the cotton grown here for their own textile mills, this region was the greatest supplier of cotton clothing in the eastern hemisphere.

Finally, I hope that my requests are not interpreted as nationalism. Some regions of the world have succeeded greatly despite terrain of quite limited value (such as Persia) while others have not formed great globe-spanning empires despite bountiful natural resources (such as India). While I acknowledge that unrealistic boosts (Europe and Japan) and nerfs (India and Africa) are somewhat necessary for game balance, I support portraying geography accurately and using tech/building modifiers to make the game balanced and historical.

 

[Linkman226]

The danger is making ancient India too strong. Barbs, anyone?

 

[Ekolite]

Or just prevent them from having access to the whole of the subcontinent by adding a few strong independents there.

 

[dragodon64]

I think barbs are probably the best option. Except for ~100 years during the Mauryan Empire and another ~100 years in the 17th century Mughal Empire, the subcontinent has never been politically unified.

 

[civ_king]

How about an independent spawn in South India with them getting reinforcements periodically?

 

[JujuLautre]

Using the latest SVN, almost every city in Arabia seems to host a church of the holy sepulcre. Talk about the Arabians being powerful in the various Turk games I launched... I'm afraid co count how many +20 gold buildings they have.

I suspect something related to the Arabian UP, where it spawns the Church instead of a Mosque because the building IDs are next to each other.

On another topic, I believe this could be helpful.

 

[Linkman226]

Yes, that is indeed the cause of the bug- a misnumbering in Consts.py of the generic i[ReligiousBuilding] values. Both Leoreth and I have had it happen in our mods already, I'm sure he just didn't catch it before SVN'ing.

 

[JujuLautre]

So do you know what I (or actually, we) should change to be able to play reasonably ? It would be fun playing the Arabs and having a +20 gold building in every conquered city, but I'm sure I would quickly get fed up

 

[Leoreth]

I'm not saying it doesn't, I just think that the current India should become a Kingdom of Magadha/Mauryan Empire, and a new Indian civ, such as the Dilli Sultanate/Mughal Empire that was suggested could be added.

Okay, then we're on the same page here

I've also implemented much of your terrain suggestions already, like making the Indus and Ganges more profitable and adding a couple of resources. I think you're right about the deserts in Goa and Maharashtra as well.

I've posted a screenshot of my current India some pages ago if you'd like to have a look.

Finally, I hope that my requests are not interpreted as nationalism. Some regions of the world have succeeded greatly despite terrain of quite limited value (such as Persia) while others have not formed great globe-spanning empires despite bountiful natural resources (such as India). While I acknowledge that unrealistic boosts (Europe and Japan) and nerfs (India and Africa) are somewhat necessary for game balance, I support portraying geography accurately and using tech/building modifiers to make the game balanced and historical.

It isn't, increasing India's value was one of my goals from the start. And it doesn't only benefit the Indians themselves, but also the Europeans that like to get involved there.

On the matter of giving India more trouble, major invasions like the Haphthalites or Kushans are currently missing anyway and could give India the trouble it needs. I just don't know about the Deccan, did the Northern Indian states have major conflicts with them as well?

Using the latest SVN, almost every city in Arabia seems to host a church of the holy sepulcre. Talk about the Arabians being powerful in the various Turk games I launched... I'm afraid co count how many +20 gold buildings they have.

I suspect something related to the Arabian UP, where it spawns the Church instead of a Mosque because the building IDs are next to each other.

Exactly. I already caught this, but apparently forgot to commit the fix. Update within the next hour and it should be gone.

On another topic, I believe this could be helpful.

I can't quite picture what it does, can you provide a screenshot?

 

[Lone Wolf]

Well, Byzantium has a really awkard initial city setup, with Antiocheia, Ikonion and Trebizond engaging in bad overlap. Maybe this retarted my tech rate.

 

[Leoreth]

It's the best compromise I could find. But Antiocheia will soon be replaced with Damascus, so at least there's a little less overlap.

 

[JujuLautre]

I can't quite picture what it does, can you provide a screenshot?

Do you use the glance screen in the foreign advisor ? In RFC, most often the columns are off by one on the left. The file just corrects this problem to make it look like it should be.

 

[Lone Wolf]

It's the best compromise I could find.

Maybe you can just replace some of the coastal Asia Minor with Grasslands? Or add a couple of resources there?

Also, I don't think that European nations should start at war with the Arabs. Or did I misinterpret something?

Anyway, I'm recording my second DoC Byzantine game here.

 

[Leoreth]

There's already two wheat there. In general, there are only a few tiles that can be improved so that they benefit Anatolia exclusively, and not Baghdad or Constantinople.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Benefitting Constantinople is fine by me

 

[Leoreth]

I think its size is just about right currently.

 

[AOS9001]

I saw another thread with a very nicely improved India a while back. Right here in fact. Maybe you could take a few ideas from it? After all, if India is to be split between two civs, it could use some further improvement.

 

[Leoreth]

I know, unfortunately the download link doesn't work anymore. I've already written to kairob but he doesn't seem to be active at the moment.

 

[AOS9001]

I know, unfortunately the download link doesn't work anymore. I've already written to kairob but he doesn't seem to be active at the moment.

Alas. I'm pretty sure I could re-do that map by hand, if need be.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I think its size is just about right currently.

Well, you can add an extra Fish to Antiocheia and Trebizond, or Grassland some of the tiles right next to them. Right now, Ikonion survives on Wheat, Trebizond - on Sheep and Antiocheia - on another Wheat, but all other tiles around them are food-poor. And the overlap between 'Nople and Ikonyon is two-three tiles only anyway.