Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[Lokki242]

There's a weird bug on the most recent available for download (not SVN) version. This might just be for me, but civ names switch between being normal and being, for the Netherlands for example, TXT_KEY_DN_NED021, without any change in civics, religion or territories.

 

[Leoreth]

Are you sure you have unpacked your download correctly? This sounds like you still have an old DLL because you haven't overwritten your previous one.

 

[J. pride]

Leoreth, I was playing as the Ottomans recently and wanted to present a suggestion I have been meaning to present for a long time. I think the Ottoman spawn should be moved to 1370 ad. I say this for two reasons:

1) Gameplay wise it would be better if the Ottomans come a little late as it allows:
-The Seljuks and Mongols have adequete time to settle the middle east and not have to worry about an ahistorical Ottoman invasion really early on.

2) The Byzantine will have more living time.

Historically:

-It is true that the Ottoman Empire was created in 1280 but it was a insignificant entity with almost no territory until the late 1300s. By flipping all of Crimea and Anatolia at a time when Byzantine, Mongols, and Sultanate of Rum had vast territories in the region creates for a very ahistorical scenario.

-Because the Ottomans spawn this early, things that were suppose to take place in 1500s and the 1600s like the Ottoman conquest of the Middle East and Eastern/Central Europe happen much earlier.

-Currently the Ottomans sometimes conquer Persian territory, this will never happen if they are spawned in the late 1300s.


Just so you can see what I am talking about, I uploaded some maps:


As you can clearly, unlike all of Anatolia and Crimea which is flipped to them, the Ottomans did not even control 1/20th of that territory



As you can see from this expansion map, Ottoman rise a major and legitimate power on the world stage started in the 1370-1413. So really 1370 would be the best date for an Ottoman spawn.

Some good side effects of this would include:

-Later, more historical fall of Constantinople.
-A more complete Mongol Conquests.
-More time for the Arabs (as a player) to reestablish themselves. I mean you just barely destroy the Mongol and then the Ottomans show up on your door steps 2 centuries before they are supposed to.
-More time for the Byzantine player to enjoy the game.
-The later the Ottomans spawn, the more historical they will act (as they will spawn with stronger troops and more appropriate techs) and the more challenging they would be to the Russians and the Austrians.


If you think about it, my argument for spawning the ottomans is the same as why you chose to spawn the Prussians in 1700. Because the Dutchy of Prussia existed since 1500s and Prussia Brandenburg since 1600; but they did not become a world power until 1700 ad.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

-Later, more historical fall of Constantinople.
-A more complete Mongol Conquests.
-More time for the Arabs (as a player) to reestablish themselves. I mean you just barely destroy the Mongol and then the Ottomans show up on your door steps 2 centuries before they are supposed to.
-More time for the Byzantine player to enjoy the game.
-The later the Ottomans spawn, the more historical they will act (as they will spawn with stronger troops and more appropriate techs) and the more challenging they would be to the Russians and the Austrians.

IMO, Arabia is perfectly fine as is.
All the incoming waves of invaders are easily crushed
by just 15-20 Camel Archers. They're pretty easy,
with the exception of the spread Islam to 40% goal.

 

[strijder20]

All the incoming waves of invaders are easily crushed
by just 15-20 Camel Archers.

Yup, even 8 will do fine enough (I did it once). It's a good idea about making the Ottomans spawn later, but that'll also mean that their Janissaries will obsolete faster.

 

[rogue131]

just played the new version and the Seljuk spawns caught me off gaurd , obviously playing as Constantinople. I dispatched most of my forces to retake North Africa. The Seljuks seized Jerusalem and tried to take Damascus. Held them at Damascus though. Then they swept into Asia Minor, why oh why is Europe quite to this threat! arrgghhh .

Great additions, love how the Seljuks sweep through. Though one thing no modder seems to remember is, the Persian Empire was at war with Byzantium at one point and is not represented in any historical mod. If you're worried about Arabia, then make Arabia stronger than them and make Persian cities flip or at least the Mesopotamian ones. But the struggle between Heraclius and Persia was epic to Byzantine history!

Great update though! What's up the Turkish spawn? I saw they spawned as TXT_CIV_OTTOMAN or something like that? How can I fix that?

 

[Leoreth]

Oh, I'm aware of the Sassanid-Byzantine war. It's just that the Sassanids lost two turns after the beginning of the game, so it's more historical not to include them at all. The game treats it as if the conflict is already over, the Byzantine dawn of man text for example mentions that they've already barely won the war.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I'm not sure of the exact DoC mechanics in the area, but the Ottomans spawn in 1359 in RFCE
So I agree that a little later spawn would be more historical

 

[J. pride]

So Leoreth what do you think of making the Ottomans spawn a bit later (around 1350-1400 range)?

 

[Leoreth]

My problem with that is that the Ottomans and their goals usually synch up right as they are currently, and I fear that making this change will just create a host of contingent problems that are ultimately not worth the effort.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

Why would a later spawn of the Ottomans be more historical?

The current spawn date (1290) corresponds to the rise of Sultan Osman Gazi, whom the Ottomans regard as the founder of their empire.

Maybe we should ask The Turk what an appropriate spawn date would be?

 

[morff]

I would welcome if they could spawn just one or two turns later.

 

[rogue131]

Oh, I'm aware of the Sassanid-Byzantine war. It's just that the Sassanids lost two turns after the beginning of the game, so it's more historical not to include them at all. The game treats it as if the conflict is already over, the Byzantine dawn of man text for example mentions that they've already barely won the war.

Understandable, would have been nice to deal the crushing blow to King Khosrau though . I would say having an exhausted military and war weariness from fighting Persia would make the Arab spawn much more difficult, but as it starts now; Arabia is just fine and things ok. Wishful thinking.

I found that playing as the Turks I could change the TXT_OTTOMAN error, however I did notice when Aztec vassalized to China, a similiar error occured. Should I go through the text or something and physically change that, so it does not happen?

Also, I can't remember how to set to a custom scenario, I like to disable Vassal state; makes warfare and diplomacy more interesting to me. Vassals annoy me.

But amazing upgrade from 1.73! I must say you probably have the best BtS mod out here! As for the Turks, that's a debatable position, perhaps "The Turk" could be the best judge on that.

 

[Leoreth]

Whenever you see a TXT_KEY_... thing somewhere, it's because the names I'm using in DynamicCivs.py and the files in XML\Text\ don't synch up. The reason is likely an oversight or typo on my part. If you want to fix it, open XML\Text\DynamicNames_Turkey.xml and replace the TXT_KEY_CIV_TURKEY_DESC_DEFAULT entry with TXT_KEY_CIV_OTTOMAN_DESC_DEFAULT (i.e. exactly what you see displayed in game). Same thing when you see other text keys that are still displayed: open the text file of the respective civ and look for something similar (as it's likely only a typo) and change it accordingly.

 

[rogue131]

Whenever you see a TXT_KEY_... thing somewhere, it's because the names I'm using in DynamicCivs.py and the files in XML\Text\ don't synch up. The reason is likely an oversight or typo on my part. If you want to fix it, open XML\Text\DynamicNames_Turkey.xml and replace the TXT_KEY_CIV_TURKEY_DESC_DEFAULT entry with TXT_KEY_CIV_OTTOMAN_DESC_DEFAULT (i.e. exactly what you see displayed in game). Same thing when you see other text keys that are still displayed: open the text file of the respective civ and look for something similar (as it's likely only a typo) and change it accordingly.

Ok, thanks for that. I didn't want to screw up the mod/codding by doing that. Sounds like a Weekend or day off adventure for me. Again though, amazing upgrade, I'm hooked on DoC (have been from the start)

 

[Leoreth]

The worst thing that could happen is that you create even more TXT_KEY stuff

 

[rogue131]

The worst thing that could happen is that you create even more TXT_KEY stuff

Not too bad I think to allow custom scenarios in DoC, didn't I set the nocustom scenario config to 1 or something? trying to remember exactly.

 

[Leoreth]

I think you would need to do that. But why would you want custom scenarios?

 

[rogue131]

I like to play with no-vassal states and random personalities from time to time.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

I think you would need to do that. But why would you want custom scenarios?

Perhaps you could make an 1500 CE scenario, given the addition of many late game civs. That would bring more attention to the Modern Era. As the scenarios are now I seldom play past 1800.

It could be like RFCE++'s 1200 CE scenario, where many civs start with 1 or 2 of their UHVs already accomplished.