Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[AtlantaMarty]

No, she isn't. That part of the Python code is commented out.

The LH info is still there, maybe even the art. I need to clean up the mod a bit I guess

Why did you take her out?

(and PS: can you please add Chiang Kai-shek as a leader for China. In my opinion he was a great leader)

 

[Royal Tenenbaum]

Why did you take her out?

(and PS: can you please add Chiang Kai-shek as a leader for China. In my opinion he was a great leader)

How about, if China is being slaughtered by Japan and half the country is in revolt and you have killed no more than 0 Japanese units, the leaderhead is Kai-shek. Otherwise, it is Mao.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

^ Indeed.

And if China, while at Unstable stability, declares war on 8 more powerful civs in one turn and proceed to loose its capital the next turn, the leaderhead should switch to Cixi.

Oh, and her leaderhead should also gift Chinese cities to China's opponents after China has won a war. And switch all cities to building Wonders or Wealth during wars.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

Maybe Qianlong could be the Industrial/Modern Monarchy LH?

The point is that it's kind of weird to have the first Ming emperor be the LH of China in 2000. Maybe 2-year-old Pu Yi should be the leaderhead.

 

[Krugi]

I demand two Puyi leaderheads for China, one of them perpetually six years old, who appears on the single turn of Anarchy when China switches to Republic. The other, adult Puyi is featured in the Civilopedia as a Chinese leaderhead, but strangely enough, he never actually seems to appear as such in-game.

The Modern Chinese leaderhead under Monarchy should obviously be Yuan Shikai. Obviously

 

[Atlantic Pacf.]

On the topic of leaderheads...

I want a Jefferson Davis LH when the US is in CSA mode, and an Emperor Norton I LH when the US is in Dynasticism (esp. if the capital is at San Francisco).

I also want three leaderheads for post-Renaissance Vikings: Gustav Adolf (if they are Swedish), Christian IV (if they are Danish/Norwegian) and Markus Persson (if they've achieved any victory)*.

*That said, maybe we can include a Sid leaderhead.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

Maybe Qianlong could be the Industrial/Modern Monarchy LH?

Kublai Khan deserves to be a Chinese LH as much as (if not more than) Qianlong does.

To a similar extent Suleiman the Magnificent deserves to be a Greek LH.

Alexander the Great deserves to be an Egyptian LH. etc. etc.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

Kublai Khan deserves to be a Chinese LH as much as (if not more than) Qianlong does.

To a similar extent Suleiman the Magnificent deserves to be a Greek LH.

Alexander the Great deserves to be an Egyptian LH. etc. etc.

I can see your point with Kublai Khan, but not with Suleiman (maybe Justinian being a Greek LH) or Alexander (he was dead before he could really consolidate his empire).

That aside, the point of adding Qianlong would be to add an appropriate Industrial/Modern LH.

 

[Krugi]

Kublai Khan deserves to be a Chinese LH as much as (if not more than) Qianlong does.

To a similar extent Suleiman the Magnificent deserves to be a Greek LH.

Alexander the Great deserves to be an Egyptian LH. etc. etc.

Queen Victoria doesn't deserve to be an English LH, being of German ancestry; the Kurdish Saladin has no right to represent Arabia in this game; Catherine the Great was a German princess, and only began to learn Russian at the age of fourteen. i don't see your point yet.

 

[civ_king]

Kublai Khan deserves to be a Chinese LH as much as (if not more than) Qianlong does.

To a similar extent Suleiman the Magnificent deserves to be a Greek LH.

Alexander the Great deserves to be an Egyptian LH. etc. etc.

What about:
Ancient-Medieval is Qin Shi Huang Di
Renaissance is Hongwu
Industrial is Sun Yat-sen
Communist stuff is Mao, Fascist stuff is Chiang Kai-shek, else Sun Yat-sen

Queen Victoria doesn't deserve to be an English LH, being of German ancestry; the Kurdish Saladin has no right to represent Arabia in this game; Catherine the Great was a German princess, and only began to learn Russian at the age of fourteen. i don't see your point yet.

 

[Royal Tenenbaum]

I agree with the Saladin point. Saladin should be Egyptian. Let the older Arab LH last longer.

 

[Krugi]

Saladin wouldn't have much time to shine, though. Egypt cannot declare independence before 1100 AD, and Baibars steps on the scene a mere fifteen turns later. Perhaps Egypt should have the chance to respawn in 900 AD already, starring as the Fatimid Caliphate, with Saladin as their (ahistorical) leader.

In any event, I don't think that Cathy should be removed from Russia or anything like that; I was arguing about Qianlong.

 

[Lennon789]

Saladin wouldn't have much time to shine, though. Egypt cannot declare independence before 1100 AD, and Baibars steps on the scene a mere fifteen turns later. Perhaps Egypt should have the chance to respawn in 900 AD already, starring as the Fatimid Caliphate, with Saladin as their (ahistorical) leader.

In any event, I don't think that Cathy should be removed from Russia.

Agreed, after all the Fatimid/Ayyubid/Mamluk dynasties are all represented by a respawned, Islamic Egypt.

 

[Royal Tenenbaum]

Egypt respawns before 1100 all the time. I don't know what you're talking about. Often in 900
They have Fatimid, Ayyubid, and Mamluk dynamic names as well

 

[Lennon789]

Interesting, are the conditions for the different DNs strictly chronological? And does running Theocracy or Dynasticism have any effect?

What is the difference between Theocracy and Dynasticism supposed to illustrate in-game, anyway? I thought Theocracies were run by religious figures, whereas Dynasties were run by hereditary monarchs, but the Byzantines running Theocracy seems to disprove this nation. Also, doesn't the notion of Divine Right further muddle the difference between the two?

 

[Leoreth]

@everyone: it's recommended to look up the availability in the download database before suggesting new LHs.

Interesting, are the conditions for the different DNs strictly chronological? And does running Theocracy or Dynasticism have any effect?

It's either roughly chronological, or era-based. Theocracy has its own dynamic names for certain civs, it triggers the Caliphate names for Muslim civs for example.

What is the difference between Theocracy and Dynasticism supposed to illustrate in-game, anyway? I thought Theocracies were run by religious figures, whereas Dynasties were run by hereditary monarchs, but the Byzantines running Theocracy seems to disprove this nation. Also, doesn't the notion of Divine Right further muddle the difference between the two?

It's a rather wide term, as most civics are. Countries outright run by religious figures are certainly represented too, but the list of civs where that actually applies is short (only Tibet I think). But it can also apply to civs whose ruler bases his authority largely on his religious role, or exercises a lot of religious power directly. This would be Byzantium or Arabia, for instance.

 

[Lennon789]

Thanks for the explanation. Have you got any juicy details about the upcoming civic redesign? I always found this to be one of the most fascinating features of this modmod.

 

[Leoreth]

Instead of talking about it I would rather finish and commit it.

The civics themselves are already in, I just need to correct all the references to them in the Python code. Civic stability will probably be disabled until the new stability mechanics.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

Queen Victoria doesn't deserve to be an English LH, being of German ancestry; the Kurdish Saladin has no right to represent Arabia in this game; Catherine the Great was a German princess, and only began to learn Russian at the age of fourteen. i don't see your point yet.

The difference here is that those leaders were actually effective and presided over the rise of their civilization. That is why their civilizations embraced them as their own.

 

[Leoreth]

Not to mention that the notion of ancestry and common ethnicity depends a lot on context. Both the Yuan and the Qing were non-Han but they're seen very differently.