DMI XI - Hyborem's Whisper (FfH2)

[slowcar]

Looks like a dream start to me!
In my experience research is a bit slow at the beginning with hyborem. But better be fast to be able to use iron weapons to its fullest extent!
We should research markets before the switch as a basis for a larger empire.
I guess "no AI building requirements" is not checked? Would make the game a bit more challenging, but let's just see what the AI is up too

Most of the time i am online in #erebus on irc-chat.net if there is anything to talk about. If i don't answer directly it is possible that i am at work, i look from time to time but spend most of my time working

Edit:
I'll possibly have to skip my first turn. I have a meeting in paris from tomorrow until thursday, thought i would be able to play tonight but there is no save ready for me. best of luck and i hope you'll be able to fend of the doviello!

 

[JayThomas]

To learn a bit about Sheim and Infernal, I've been playing a bit on my own using the same settings as this SG.

What should the general strategy be? It almost seems you want to get to infernal pact as fast as possible (at the expense of Sheim developement) since the Infernals seem to spawn in the middle of anywhere.

 

[·Imhotep·]

@JayThomas:

Yes, that's true. The Sheaim are just a vehicle in this SG - so we don't care at all if they have good prospects as long as they bring us to Infernal Pact in time. When we switch we will have nothing more to do with them, the Infernals spawn anywhere on the map if there is free space. The strategy is: The earlier the switch, the easier it is for us - because we will go straight on rampage. The Infernals start with Hyborem, a couple of Sects of Flies, an Imp and a Longbow. We will use these units and crush our neighbor right out of the gate, hopefully he still has normal warriors then. We will need the room to settle our own cities and furthermore we need those manes. Also we will NOT adopt AV as the Sheaim before the switch as we want Rosier for ourselves.

Imhotep

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

Well I ummed and Ahhed about the tech path (as I still do with FFH very wide tech path options) as Mining, Writing and Unlocking Markets having been tentatively proposed for slipping into our Tech Path.

However in the end I decided to keep on our Beeline as:-

I couldn’t be sure any of the proposals were better
But I could be sure being beaten to our end goal was disastrous
And the sooner we “switch” the better.

As far as build swere concerned Skeleton summoning Adepts were top priority and other than that keeping research strong in view of the logic above.

So it starts well with a warrior defeating the Goblin but a reminder we are rather weak for Immortal…

Capital goes Mage Guild -> Adept
Grottiburg Obelisk -> Warrior
And we stick with Ashen Veil path.

But here it goes tragically wrong…

As Mahala stack approaches our border and he then promptly declares..

Grottiburg Falls

And even with 2 Adepts whipped in I think our game is toast and our capital will fall soon as he has several axemen on the way.

Re Roll and downgrade to Emperor??

 

[·Imhotep·]

Yeah, that's what I'd do. We'll never rush it like that...stupid Doviello, always on a rampage !!!!

 

[JayThomas]

Oh!!

Re-rolling is OK with me. Gives me more time to practice.

 

[Ozbenno]

Doviello are not the nicest neighbours to have as they love an early rush. A re-roll then. I'll be oop from today probably for a couple of days.

 

[JayThomas]

Should we try emperor instead. I'm finding it very difficult for the Infernals getting any ground on immortal.

But, I'm just a wimp.

 

[·Imhotep·]

Okay, I'll roll a new start tomorrow. Well, I guess Emperor should do it...

 

[Trieste]

Dammed brutal Doviello - better luck next time!

 

[JayThomas]

Also we will NOT adopt AV as the Sheaim before the switch as we want Rosier for ourselves.
Imhotep

I think the AV has to be state religion to research Infernal Pact. In my practice game, Infernal Pact didn't show up in the research path until I swiched the Sheaim to AV.

I didn't try switching out during the reasearch to Infernal Pact.

Also, a thing I've noticed about manes. In my current game, I'm exterminating the Elohim. When Hyborem razed an Elohim city, I got a notification of manes, and some did show up. When non-Hyborem troops razed a city I recieved no message. So, I thought, maybe when Hyborem does the deed, that generates manes. I had Hyborem do the next city and I got a notification of manes but no manes actually showed up.

Don't know if it's a bug, or a machanic I don't get. I was suprised to get any manes from razing a good city anyway.

 

[·Imhotep·]

@JayThomas:

You're right of course. I was somewhat confused. As of now, FfH doesn't work with BtS 3.17. So I put this game on hold until next week, when the FfH patch for 3.17 comes.

Imhotep

 

[slowcar]

i think it is just not a good idea, at least with the latest 0.32 patch, to go pure builderstyle. the moment we knew that our neighbours were the doviello we were able to prepare - and we did not. you have a lot of time until somebody techs to AV - and having a single warrior in the cities just don't get it done.

in my opinion it was not bad luck but a strategy too narrowly focussed on getting a quick start with the infernals, you have to ensure that you get this far at least.
emperor will not be very difficult in this aspect and the doviello are not the only early rushers. varn or the khazad would have killed us just as fast.

piling warriors is not a bad strategy in the beginning, as long as the economy can handle it.

 

[slowcar]

omg!
0.32g:
24. Infernals get all their free buildigns (demonic citizens, elder council, training yard, obsidion gate, forge, mage guild) in citys they capture.

 

[JayThomas]

That's great!!

 

[JayThomas]

Might want to consider turning off religious victories. Arendal scores one in 222 turns in my practice game. Infernal lasts for 25 turns

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Lurker comment:

To clear up a common misconception that's been popping up in these SGs: Mahala is not a he.

 

[slowcar]

i played an infernal game myself yesterday with the same setup. without "no building requirements" the AI stays weak even on immortal.
three AIs tried to rush me without success (mahala, tasunke, alexis) while i was building up.
due to the changes i think you really need only the prerequisite techs + education.
building a second city (out of harms way) and having a sage ready for the holy thingie would be good.

4-5 warriors for defense is minimum, better have some more as the later AI attacks will field horsemen/hunters.

research is a lot faster due to the free buildings in all captured cities. switching to the unlimited sage thing is a good idea to give the 50+ population capital some specialists to work with.

 

[Ozbenno]

I'm back in the loop as well when we restart.

 

[JayThomas]

Just tried the Kuriotates (sp) after reading a suggestion on the strat forum. Works pretty good too. My game even had the Sheiam in it and I still beat them to AV. Infernals ny turn 176. My fastest. Could of shaved a few more turns. I couldn't settle for three turns looking for a spot. Overlooked a few cottage opportunities as well.

This was on Emperor with lastes BTS, FFH updates.