Do Game Consumers Expect Faulty Games?

[trader/warrior]

(emphasis mine)
Really? Bethesda releasing complete games?

Bethesda do release complete games. Complete games that are horribly buggy.

To me it seems a lot of games that get reputations of being buggy the problem is often that in addition to bugginess there are percieved missing features, lack of content, bad game design and bad porting from consoles. They are simply bad games. While games like Skyrim and Fallout are almost unhurt even though they are very buggy games, because they make it up with gameplay, mods and amount of content.

 

[warpus]

I buy most of my games after-the-fact and do not really care about the novelty factor at all. My main motivation when buying a game is an engrossing gaming experience - which is why I usually wait until all the big bugs have been ironed out, the game is far cheaper, and/or you can buy it bundled with a bunch of DLC and/or expansion packs.

I make exceptions, but do research first to make sure that I'm not buying a broken or incomplete game (in whichever way)

There is a bit of a problem these days with incomplete/broken games being released.. This should really not be happening, but if people continue paying for the crap, it will..

 

[innonimatu]

Yes, we do expect faulty games. As we expect death and taxes.

Older games were better than new games, and you got more value for your money. Older games were larger in most cases. The only exception I can think of is Skyrim. While I'm not the biggest Bethesda fan, they do seem to release complete games.

They had, and still have, a terrible reputation for bugs. But given the size of their games I can understand and forgive them.
The game was complete in that the DLC were not necessary, just some more fluff.

 

[KMRblue1027]

I don't know why you say old games don't have bugs. Doom which is often seen as the pinnacle of "old games" had to be patched 9 times and there were still critical bugs that had to be fixed by fans when the source was released.

 

[NBAfan]

Problem with software is that it's never really finished. There's always some fine tuning that can be done.


The idea of consumer protection regulation for the game industry is dumb. Games, video and board, are not major investments like cars and appliances are. All it would do is drive prices way up.

 

[Bamspeedy]

I don't know what you can compare games to for regulation. Cars and appliances are major expenses and often regulated for safety. Kids toys are AFAIK only regulated for safety.

Now I know some people are hard core gamers but even for those people I don't think a video game bug is a safety issue.

I'll repeat other comments about old games having bugs and Bethseda releasing 'complete' games. Well, Oblivion is a very large game that I am impressed with, but some seem to be pumping it up to be a 'perfect' game which it isn't. Look up the Unofficial Oblivion Patch. They fixed something like 10,000+ bugs with the game. (ok, most are small graphical fixes and typos).

Baldur's gate has bugs and wasn't terribly complex. No matter which people you picked as your partners the storyline was the same (except for random comments that served no purpose, until the few times when the partners would turn on each other and fight to the death.) Did Baldur's gate have as many graphical bugs as Oblivion? Would you prefer BG graphics to Oblivion graphics?

Your only recourse at present is to play games where the vendor has motivation to eventually fix the bugs on their own volition. That is one of the primary reasons why I play WoW. I used to be adamantly opposed to subscription-based games, but they are really the only genre where it is in the vendors' best interests to eventually fix the bugs. They are far more interested in having that recurring revenue stream than they are coming out with the next product which is largely a fix of the existing bugs with even more added as new "features".

So every month you send them more money you are basically paying for a new game.

Lets see..

1. Spend $20 for a game (I almost never buy a game that is brand new) that has some bugs that I can download patches to fix (official or unofficial patches), and I can play it as much as I want for years and years and years.

OR

2. Spend $150 EVERY year I want to play that game that has bugs fixed much sooner.

Unless situation 1 is a bug where the game crashes to desktop that REALLY makes the game unplayable (and no patch to fix it), I'm choosing the option that costs less. In option 2 you are basically paying them to fix the game.

Option 1 doesn't spend the kind of money option 2 does unless you try to keep up with all the Sims sequels and expansions.

 

[plastiqe]

I'm regressing to cartridges. We just got an old N64 at the house and me and my room mates have been playing it a lot.

I will never buy a Civ game when it first comes out, I will always wait till the Gold/Complete version comes out a year or two later with all the finished content in one package. The jury is still out on Civ5. Learned that lesson from Firaxis back with the Play the World expansion.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Now I know some people are hard core gamers but even for those people I don't think a video game bug is a safety issue.

If your refrigerator or dishwasher doesn't work as intended, it typically isn't a safety issue either.

Lets see..

The point you are obviously missing is that they continue to add more and more content, as well as providing the extensive server infrastructure which is critical for the game to even work. That it clearly isn't just for bug fixes. That WoW still has 9.1 million subscribers and is by far the most successful game of all time.

I was merely making the point that Blizzard has a vested interest to promptly fix bugs due to being a subscription game.

 

[Dachs]

They had, and still have, a terrible reputation for bugs. But given the size of their games I can understand and forgive them.
The game was complete in that the DLC were not necessary, just some more fluff.

Define "necessary".

 

[BvBPL]

No matter which people you picked as your partners the storyline was the same (except for random comments that served no purpose, until the few times when the partners would turn on each other and fight to the death.)

Random comments made the game fun. It would have been a poorer game without Minsc and Boo kicking butt for JUSTICE!

That's my point.. These products will eventually become far more regulated due to how bug-ridden and how many design flaws the typical software currently has, much less games. Until then, you really have no viable recourse.

I don't think the choice is as binary as regulation or letting the game company run roughshod over the consumer. The video gaming consumer base is pretty dedicated; if a group of consumers got together to inform the general public and called the companies on their crap maybe something would get done. One problem is that the video game press is completely in the pocket of the production industry.

There isn't a strong independent voice for video game consumers, but there are strong consumer groups for other industries that can effect real change in the relationship between consumers and producers. This includes the entertainment industry, with movies being a key example.

Of course that would require the video game consumer to accept that he's being taken for a ride and maybe put off buying the latest Madden game or Doom clone. Seems unlikely. The video game consumer is, frankly, an ovine creature who is more than happen to be fleeced.

As for older games being having fewer, or more, bugs than newer ones, I think the better comparison is between the sophistication of the games. I've never had a bug when playing the Settlers of Catan port, Angry Birds, Puzzle Quest, or NetHack, but I see plenty of nonsense when playing the latest and greatest piece of eye pornography on my Xbox. It doesn't seem to me to be a question of old versus new but of sophistication and moving parts. (Although I would also be happy to make the case that NetHack is among the most sophisticated pieces of entertainment ever created.)

 

[Bamspeedy]

If your refrigerator or dishwasher doesn't work as intended, it typically isn't a safety issue either.

One spends far more on a refrigerator than one does for a video game. The refrigerator is far more important that it works properly than a video game.

Define 'works properly'.

A refrigerator either keeps the food cold or it doesn't. Players have different definitions of a 'playable game' (except all would agree that always having a crash to desktop just minutes into the game is unplayable). A refrigerator does not need to consider all the different combinations of hardware that people could be using to operate it and finding exploits or bugs that one person out of millions of players will eventually figure out.

The point you are obviously missing is that they continue to add more and more content. That it clearly isn't just for bug fixes. That WoW still has 9.1 million subscribers and is by far the most successful game of all time.

So it's comparable to the Sims series, then. (as far as continuing to pay more money and getting expanded content for a game you already own).

I was aware of the expanded content. But my point is giving company A $500 (over a few years) for one game is motivation to fix bugs in that one game than another company you give $20 to.

 

[Yeekim]

Also, another major difference between fridge and a game is, that physical objects such as fridges tend to have unique faults, which may be hard or impossible to discover before buying one. You can't know in advance whether the thermostat shall break 3 weeks after purchasing the damn thing, which is why you get a warranty.

Copies of software, on the other hand, are identical. You can find out about most bugs beforehand (unless they've got to do with your unique hardware configuration), if you simply refrain from pre-ordering and wait a bit for feedback. Or you just can put your eye-patch on and test the game for playability before buying it.

 

[innonimatu]

Define "necessary".

In a game?
But I said it: necessary for the game story/goals to be completed. Even the "open-ended" games have those. I don't even know what the DLC is, and I completed most of the quest lines before this latest expansion came out.

 

[Mise]

My house is riddled with "bugs", directly comparable to software bugs.


Kitchen:

- My kitchen cupboards often don't shut properly: on one cupboard, the door doesn't stay closed the whole way; on another cupboard, one door overlaps with the other door, such that I have to open and close the doors in a certain order before they work.
- The microwave door is difficult to open via the button on the front: the spring is wound too tightly, so that (a) the button is difficult to press, and (b) once pressed, the power of the spring makes the door fly open rather quicker than I suppose it was designed for.
- My fridge-freezer requires frequent defrosting and makes loud noises during awkward silences.
- The temperature knob on the oven is grossly inaccurate.
- The hood/extractor fan does not extract air, it merely filters it (and does so poorly).
- Toaster is a fire hazard

Bathroom:

- The toilet doesn't flush the first time. You often have to flush twice.
- Hot water tap is too hot. Cold water tap is too cold.
- Shower head is not positioned centrally; water is skewed to the left
- Shower curtain is semi-permeable; frequently leaks
- Extractor fan is noisy, inefficient, and stays on for too long after I have turned the lights off
- The light switch is on the outside of the room; NPCs at parties turn it off when player is in the bathroom
- There is no source of external light or air, making the room both smelly and difficult to dry
- Bathroom mirror is inappropriately positioned (unless you re-roll as a dwarf)

Living room:

- Sofa cushions frequently pop out
- Sofa seats 3 comfortably but comes with only 2 cushions
- Size of coffee table and positioning of furniture around it cause pathing issues for NPCs
- Drawer handle on coffee table frequently falls out due to screw holes being too wide
- Condensation on cold drinks in warm weather results in water stains on coffee table due to selection of construction material
- TV is inappropriately large
- New carpet requires several runs with the vacuum to suck up all the stray fibres, reducing player stamina and generally frustrating gameplay

Bedroom:

- Bed is too large
- Large pillar in centre of outer wall causes pathing issues at night
- Walls are not perfectly perpendicular
- Walk-in wardrobe has no light (this was my workaround for that particular bug...)
- Little underbed storage space

General issues:

- Central Heating has no timer control
- Sirens and other environmental sound effects are audible even when player is Resting
- There's a switch in the boiler closet that doesn't do anything, other than turn on an LED above the switch to indicate that the switch is in the ON position
- Hardness of water causes unsightly and efficiency-destroying limescale build-up in kitchen and bathroom sinks, in the toilet, the shower, and on pots, pans and the kettle


Aside from that though everything seems to work fine.

 

[Yeekim]

- My kitchen cupboards often don't shut properly: on one cupboard, the door doesn't stay closed the whole way; on another cupboard, one door overlaps with the other door, such that I have to open and close the doors in a certain order before they work.

Pick up the screwdriver and regulate the hinges properly!
http://www.wikihow.com/Adjust-Euro-Style-Cabinet-Hinges

 

[BvBPL]

General issues:

- Central Heating has no timer control

Yeah, but you know and expect that, and most of the other complaints you have, before you purchased the thermostat. I didn't know I could shoot through walls in XCom before I purchased it. The missing timer is overt and explicit, but being able to shoot through walls is a fact occluded to the purchasers until the game is popped in the drive and it is too late to return it.

 

[Mise]

Yeah, but you know and expect that, and most of the other complaints you have, before you purchased the thermostat. I didn't know I could shoot through walls in XCom before I purchased it. The missing timer is overt and explicit, but being able to shoot through walls is a fact occluded to the purchasers until the game is popped in the drive and it is too late to return it.

I didn't know any of the things I listed before I bought the flat. I knew the big things, like, "is the building structurally sound?", "does the person I'm buying from have a legal right to sell it?", and "is there central heating?", but the smaller bits and bobs, like the specific features of the central heating, or even whether or not the previous owner was going to leave the furniture or not, I only found out after I had moved in. Those are the sorts of things you only find out after you move in, like whether the neighbours play loud music, or whether the lifts are always broken.

 

[Grisu]

a missing feature is not a bug...so if your heating doesn't have a timer you got no right to complain about it (well, you got the right to complain, just not to have it fixed ), unless it was advertised as having a time.

same with a game: not having a multiplayer option is not a bug unless the box say it's got multiplayer. things that can be reasonably expected of the game (such as not crashing at every turn, the campaign actually being possible to finish, etc.) do qualify as bugs, IMHO. same if your bed crashed whenever a person lies down on it.

I do not, however, expect a game to be bug free, such a thing is next to impossible, and expecting that would drive the prize to ridiculous heights. But I do expect that bugs will get fixed within reasonable times. Same as I would expect a refund or a fix to that faulty bed.

 

[Mise]

It's like a bug in the context of this thread. BvBPL asked:

would you accept any other good that had to be fixed after your purchase?

The answer is, yes, I would, I have, and it cost a damn sight more than the average new game! A "bug" in a game is a niggle, a nuisance, an annoyance. It's not a showstopper -- because if it was, it wouldn't get past beta. It's just something that makes the game seem less polished, like a table with one leg too short, or a door that sticks a bit, or, well, a brass handle that hasn't been polished.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I want to reiterate my point:

I do not expect nor hope for the government to regulate bugs. I expect them to regulate companies from releasing games that do not work like Sword of the Stars 2.

I don't think the regulations even have to be preemptive or heavy handed - they should just fine companies that release broken (not buggy - I mean unplayable) products after they are released. They shouldn't get involved before then because that will interfere and drive up costs. I just want a watchdog to stop companies from releasing broken software. The free market isn't fixing the problem, this is getting worse over time IMO. We have lemon laws and warranties in other industries...why not in this one?