DocT5- The RaR Deity Trial
- Thread starter Doc Tsiolkovski
- Start date
Pfeffersack
Deity
Doc Tsiolkovski said:
Ok, that isn't much...but is there an hidden advantage in making straight peace instead of taking the WM and the gold? The only difference I can imagine here is a slight influence on AI mood, but after all the conquering we did I guess Xerxes hates us anyway...
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
No, except for playing honorable by SG rules; you are usually allowed to break the treaty if you need to urgently (but, since WW will hit with the same level again, this is pointless).
I can play before then, so we can swap. I got it.
Preturn: Sell some world maps and techs. Raise science to 100%. We are now getting the tech in 3 turns instead 4.
Early: We get Motorized transport and start Military Tradition. I decide to remove Babylon from the game.
Mid: The Babylons are Destroyed. I Get Mil Trad and start the Arc de Triumph (This is the free barracks wonder. It will be useful for our large continent). Start Automatic Weapons (defensive unit).
Declare war on Persia.
Late: Level 1 WW hits us. Cut Persian Resources (Unfortunately, the horses are under a city)
Capture Persepolis, Pasargadae, Zariqum, Bactra, Zarqum
We get Automatic Weapons. I trade it to china for their gold to slow their research.
Notes:
I was feeling war-like so I attacked Persia a bit early.
Mostly builder turns. I concentrated on Scientific buildings. We can get lots of gold from the AI and thus don't need any money making buildings. I suggest we continue to concentrate on science so we can continue to research techs in 3 turns.
We are building the Arc De Triomphe in 2, Eiffel in 3, Winter Palace in 2, Intelligence Agency in 18.
Persia has 2 more towns on the mainland and 2 more on the island. WW is at first level. I stopped starving the towns as I think we will be able to destroy them in 2 to 3 turns.
Early: We get Motorized transport and start Military Tradition. I decide to remove Babylon from the game.
Mid: The Babylons are Destroyed. I Get Mil Trad and start the Arc de Triumph (This is the free barracks wonder. It will be useful for our large continent). Start Automatic Weapons (defensive unit).
Declare war on Persia.
Late: Level 1 WW hits us. Cut Persian Resources (Unfortunately, the horses are under a city)
Capture Persepolis, Pasargadae, Zariqum, Bactra, Zarqum
We get Automatic Weapons. I trade it to china for their gold to slow their research.
Notes:
I was feeling war-like so I attacked Persia a bit early.
Mostly builder turns. I concentrated on Scientific buildings. We can get lots of gold from the AI and thus don't need any money making buildings. I suggest we continue to concentrate on science so we can continue to research techs in 3 turns.
We are building the Arc De Triomphe in 2, Eiffel in 3, Winter Palace in 2, Intelligence Agency in 18.
Persia has 2 more towns on the mainland and 2 more on the island. WW is at first level. I stopped starving the towns as I think we will be able to destroy them in 2 to 3 turns.
Here is our war on Persia. Note that I am using our defensive units in the war. Haven't seen a persian boat.
BTW, what is up with the AI not exploring? The civs still didn't have contact with one another (I used this to get some cash).
BTW, what is up with the AI not exploring? The civs still didn't have contact with one another (I used this to get some cash).
grs
nameless one
I wondered about that too, but do you think it was a wise move to sell the contacts around? Not that we will lose the game because of this, but normally this is a big
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Why do we only suffer from WW level 1?I admittedly have close to zero experience with Demo, but shouldn't WW reassume with the same level when you fight the same Civ within 20 turns?
Other than that, no problem with the war; we surely were strong enough already during my turnset, only WW was the problem. That was the reason why I made straight peace, so we could redeclare when we feel like it.
Where's the Winter Palace?
Babylon: Not sure if I'd done this; I prefer to keep those weak SCI Civs around. The MA techs are pretty expensive.
Contacts: The AI doesn't have them because most Civs don't build ocean-going ships
. There simply is no way to get the AI to build enough of those until late-game, when they require escorts. But since China/India/US had them, no problem with selling contacts; those Civs would have done that soon enough.Arc d'Triomphe: Not worth it IMHO. If it would have finished before the Persian War, it would have been nice; but researching that extra Tech, and spending the shields is not really worthwile in RaR (it was in DyP!) - the wonder expires with Radar.
Better switch the build to a Scyscraper, we need some of those to build the Empire State Building (Colossus equivalent).
Pfeffersack
Deity
Doc Tsiolkovski said:
I admittedly have close to zero experience with Demo, but shouldn't WW reassume with the same level when you fight the same Civ within 20 turns?
(...)
According to Oysteins article about how WW works it is possible to reduce WW level within 20 turns (#1 post); the reduction gets delayed, if you stay in enemy territory after making peace (or if the former enemy doesn't leave your territory):
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=61628&page=1
As I understand it war weariness fades away over time. It I think it was Pfeffersack's link that I got this from. So we lost most but not all our WW.
Oh I just realized I goofed and didn't sell the district courthouses even after docs reminder. Next player should do this. I went into the game intending to do this but then forgot when playing.
I missed the fact that the "Arc de Triumph" now expires. We might as well complete it - that way we can freely build units in any city without worrying about not having barracks, but I agree that it probably wasn't worth going after specifically. I did sell the tech to china for full price so the research wasn't an entire waste. It got us refrigeration which I wanted.
The arch will save us a some of change on barracks upkeep. We will still want to build units and it will make barracks free. We can build a skyscraper pretty quickly in our capitol now, so I would complete it. Up to next player though.
On the trading around contacts - Under normal circumstances, I agree with you Grs, but besides the Chinese, the AI are so far behind, I felt they needed the contacts. I would rather not have one AI leading everyone else. I actually even thought about gifting them all to tech parity by giving them our techs, but decided for the most part they were just not significant. I also thought that contact had to be soon as mentioned by Doc and I might as well get something out of it.
Similarly, since we are mostly researching in first place. It doesn't matter how many AI's there are. Also the difference between 10 and 8 civs is very minor in tech price, and I really like 8 or less civs so they all fit into the F4 panel:
Winter palace is NE in Koln. I think getting it up right away is the most important. Location is secondary. I did try to make it a bit farther away, but didn't want to choose a really corrupt city and delay it anymore. It is not built, if you would rather build it elsewhere. My opinion is that we want it now and not 30 odd turns from now. It is close enough to the northern corrupt area so we can put them to real buildings if we so choose - we really need more laborers though. We are hopelessly behind on clearing swamp, building rails, etc.
Oh I just realized I goofed and didn't sell the district courthouses even after docs reminder. Next player should do this. I went into the game intending to do this but then forgot when playing.
I missed the fact that the "Arc de Triumph" now expires. We might as well complete it - that way we can freely build units in any city without worrying about not having barracks, but I agree that it probably wasn't worth going after specifically. I did sell the tech to china for full price so the research wasn't an entire waste. It got us refrigeration which I wanted.
The arch will save us a some of change on barracks upkeep. We will still want to build units and it will make barracks free. We can build a skyscraper pretty quickly in our capitol now, so I would complete it. Up to next player though.
On the trading around contacts - Under normal circumstances, I agree with you Grs, but besides the Chinese, the AI are so far behind, I felt they needed the contacts. I would rather not have one AI leading everyone else. I actually even thought about gifting them all to tech parity by giving them our techs, but decided for the most part they were just not significant. I also thought that contact had to be soon as mentioned by Doc and I might as well get something out of it.
Similarly, since we are mostly researching in first place. It doesn't matter how many AI's there are. Also the difference between 10 and 8 civs is very minor in tech price, and I really like 8 or less civs so they all fit into the F4 panel:
Winter palace is NE in Koln. I think getting it up right away is the most important. Location is secondary. I did try to make it a bit farther away, but didn't want to choose a really corrupt city and delay it anymore. It is not built, if you would rather build it elsewhere. My opinion is that we want it now and not 30 odd turns from now. It is close enough to the northern corrupt area so we can put them to real buildings if we so choose - we really need more laborers though. We are hopelessly behind on clearing swamp, building rails, etc.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
I for one would put the WP in Persepolis. The city has Wonders (tourism), and is quite a nice city spot.
I agree distance of the FPs doesn't matter that much, but it's worth to put them in highly productive/commercial cities. Our other two choices were fine.
I see the argument about the 8 Civs limit
.
I agree distance of the FPs doesn't matter that much, but it's worth to put them in highly productive/commercial cities. Our other two choices were fine.
I see the argument about the 8 Civs limit
.
Good points on Persepolis. Madbax, I would look into seeing if you think it worth switching Persepolis to the Winter Palace. Provided we can build it relatively quickly, I suspect a switch makes sense. I bet we can switch Koln to a skyscraper without loss of shields.
Pfeffersack
Deity
To makes things clear, the roster:
Greebley - just played (swapped with mad-bax)
Tinkez - out until 2.Jan.
grs - on deck
Pfeffersack
DocT
mad-bax - Up!(? - please confirm state)
Greebley - just played (swapped with mad-bax)
Tinkez - out until 2.Jan.
grs - on deck
Pfeffersack
DocT
mad-bax - Up!(? - please confirm state)
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
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This is my turnlog for the first few turns. I'll play a couple more tonight and then we can decide whether I keep the save another day, or hand it on tomorrow.
1450AD: Pre-Turn
Koln swithed to Skyscraper.
Persepolis Changed to Winter Palace (81 turns)
District Courthouses Sold.
Not sure why there are units with movement in them next tp Persian cities. Makes me a bit nervous. Hit Next Turn with fingers crossed.
IBT:
America and Persia sign Trade Embargo against us.
Set most new builds to Guild Halls and Acadamies.
1455AD:
Attack Antioch and generate a leader.
Hurry WP in Persepolis.
Take Samaria for the loss of one Cavalry.
Unload some riflemen outside Dariush KAbir. Not sure if this is the intention, but it's my turn - so there!
IBT:
Encyclopeadie gives us Advanced Metallurgy.
Persepolis builds the WP and a bazaar is ordered.
Bison River Completes the Arc de Triomphe
Delhi Completes the Eiffel Tower.
1460AD:
Wounded Knee changed from IA to Factory.
Ashur changed from War College to Intelligence Agency.
Sarcee changed from Eiffel Tower to War College for the loss of 600 shields.
Take Dariush Kabir Without Loss.
Just notice that Mao doesn't have rubber, which would make a Space Race a formality.
IBT:
Learn Thermodynamics and research tank warfare. Maybe not everyones choice.
We should build the Winter gardens apparently.
1465AD:
Generate another Leader in taking Ergili for the loss of a rifleman.
The Persians are out of the Game.
The city with the highest tax revenue after Bison River is Babylon. So I'll put the national Gallery in there.
1450AD: Pre-Turn
Koln swithed to Skyscraper.
Persepolis Changed to Winter Palace (81 turns)
District Courthouses Sold.
Not sure why there are units with movement in them next tp Persian cities. Makes me a bit nervous. Hit Next Turn with fingers crossed.
IBT:
America and Persia sign Trade Embargo against us.
Set most new builds to Guild Halls and Acadamies.
1455AD:
Attack Antioch and generate a leader.
Hurry WP in Persepolis.
Take Samaria for the loss of one Cavalry.
Unload some riflemen outside Dariush KAbir. Not sure if this is the intention, but it's my turn - so there!
IBT:
Encyclopeadie gives us Advanced Metallurgy.
Persepolis builds the WP and a bazaar is ordered.
Bison River Completes the Arc de Triomphe
Delhi Completes the Eiffel Tower.
1460AD:
Wounded Knee changed from IA to Factory.
Ashur changed from War College to Intelligence Agency.
Sarcee changed from Eiffel Tower to War College for the loss of 600 shields.
Take Dariush Kabir Without Loss.
Just notice that Mao doesn't have rubber, which would make a Space Race a formality.
IBT:
Learn Thermodynamics and research tank warfare. Maybe not everyones choice.
We should build the Winter gardens apparently.
1465AD:
Generate another Leader in taking Ergili for the loss of a rifleman.
The Persians are out of the Game.
The city with the highest tax revenue after Bison River is Babylon. So I'll put the national Gallery in there.
Pfeffersack
Deity
mad-bax said:
IMO, take your time and play your turns completly, even if it takes another day
No need to hurry, I just posted the roster and the confirmation question to keep track and all of us informed.
grs
nameless one
Good turns mad-bax - keep playing. I wont be able to play before Friday or Saturday anyways.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Take your time, mad-bax.
Some comments:
Tank Warfare is an excellent choice, we need to make sure to grab the League of Nations.
I wouldn't count on China not aquiring Rubber easily, no other Civ except India could stop them for a single turn...
And, I wouldn't be surprised when India pulls ahead of China; Ghandi completed almost all useful wonders recently.
The Leader: If there's nothing better to rush, get a Scyscraper in the International Port city.
Btw, we do not have 5 Banks so far, correct?
Some comments:
Note this comes from the Tourist Bonus mainly; often underrated.
Tank Warfare is an excellent choice, we need to make sure to grab the League of Nations.
I wouldn't count on China not aquiring Rubber easily, no other Civ except India could stop them for a single turn...
And, I wouldn't be surprised when India pulls ahead of China; Ghandi completed almost all useful wonders recently.
The Leader: If there's nothing better to rush, get a Scyscraper in the International Port city.
Btw, we do not have 5 Banks so far, correct?
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