DocT5- The RaR Deity Trial

OK I'll finish up this evening. I'll make sure we have 5 banks by the end of my turn.

Should we gear for war? If so with who. India or China? I favour India now as it would be a little easier and we would get some of the wonders Doc was talking about.
 
Here is the rest of the turnlog.


1470AD:
Dakota is Building the East India Company. Although it is not ready for 9 turns I will save the leader. The Leader will be fortified in this city.

Various cities are switched to transport. I guess we need around a dozen for an invasion.

1475AD:
No Change

IBT:
Intelligence Agency Completes.
Russians start Statue of Liberty.

1480AD:
Mao gets Radio and trades it with Ghandi.

IBT:
Learn Tank Warfare - Research Machine Tools.

1485AD:
4 turn research requires a defecit. We really need to get rails down for faster research. I doubt we'll ever see single turn research in this game. Come to think of it, I'm not sure it is implemented in RaR.

1490AD:
India and China are cash rich again. May be worth selling a tech to drain them both a bit.
Heck. I'll do it now.
Sell Thermodynamics to China for 807g + 227gpt, and to India for 102g + 123gpt (every last penny).

1495AD:
Pretty Quiet.

1500AD:
Cleaned up after myself as best I could. Nothing unusual happened.

Getting bazaars, then markets and then banks proved more time consuming than I imagined but we will have 5 banks in the next couple of turns.

Why have we not built bazaars? I am sure I must be missing a trick somewhere, but I thought they were practically mandatory everywhere.

Unit costs are beginning to rise and so I have scaled back production of labourers.

Hope I did OK.

>>THE GAME<<
 
Some good turns.

Those rifles were indeed heading to take out the rest of Persia. I should have mentioned it.

I know I didn't build bazaars because science was at 100% almost all the time. There are a goodly number of science buildings which we didn't have and I felt was worth working on first. The following four should be in every non-corrupt town IMO: Academy, Library, School of Scholars, Monastary (requires temple). This triples our science output.

Labs, schools can also be built but they are more shields, so can wait.

I was going heavy on the laborers due to the large number of squares to RR and clear. Even if we can only run 90% science, I think some more laborers worthwhile. We can merge them when we finish the main RR'ing. Even corrupt cities can be irrigated and RR'ed to support tycoons which is +3 gold.

Note that I think keeping India and China intact is worthwhile. They can supply the gold to keep science high and we get to Space some turns sooner than if we go beat them up.
 
The point with Bazaars/Markets (agree with m-b here) is that those increase Luxury trade; so, they provide happiness with luxury at least at 10%. That effect is pretty noticable. Pure commercial buildings like Toll Houses don't make that much sense; still I built a number of them, simply because they could be done in a single turn. Ports give culture.
The 5 Banks are needed for the Central Bank.
I would keep India and China around, too; now, if one of those takes over the other one, we should jump the gun, though.
 
We may eventually need them when cities go over size 15. Right now though we can easilly run with 0 Lux.

We could have built them previously when we had a non-zero luxury rate, but we had wars going on and needed troops; for the Babylon wars for example. I feel it makes perfect sense that we don't have any at this point. Other things are higher priority

I would still only build them on an as-needed basis - for example if our costs get high enough that we need to lower science - they can be quickly built then. Right now they cost Maint for no benefit.

[Edit: Doc is there an equivalent of Smiths in RaR that makes them Maint Free?
 
Indeed, we are short of worker type units, and I didn't curtail production completely, and yes we will obviously join them in later, but it will be a long time before we can do that.

The reason I was surprized at the lack of bazaars is that they help happiness and more importantly are the prerequisite for markets, banks and stock exchanges, which are the commercial foundation of the empire IMO. Whether we persue a military or peaceful course, they are useful either way.

I am not sure that China will get rubber. They are past OCN and so will not go to war at the drop of a hat, and it is unlikely that India will declare since they are at the least aggressive setting. A Space race is therefore likley to be trivial now.

Let us at least take out all the other Civs apart from China and India and expand to the domination limit before taking the space win. It is generally bad play to settle for what you have and just wait for the techs to build SS parts IMO.
 
Greebley said:
(...) [Edit: Doc is there an equivalent of Smiths in RaR that makes them Maint Free?
Click to expand...

RaR has Smiths Trading Academy like the normal game, but it covers a lot more more buildings (there is no other wonder in RaR which provides those benefits).We have tried to build it, but were beaten (by India IIRC) and switched to Enceclopedie instead; we planned to conquer it later.
 
Not building bazaars is bizarre to say the least.

In my game, I fell well behind you guys (Persia took the Babylonian horse city on like turn three, so was much stronger, and Babylon, with it's insane city sites, remained too strong to mess with for a good while. I also messed up by not building scouts early and letting the AI trade around their techs before I made contact. I had to self-research the whole AA. To add insult to injury, I missed the GL by two turns.)

After a tech wild goose chase to get my UU put me even further behind, a surgical strike (with Mameluk armies!) to take the Encyclopedia from Babs caught me up, and I'm now on 2/3 turn tech at 3.6.1 sliders researching tank warfare in the mid-1400's. Tech lead by about 5 techs over the Chinese.

With bazaars, markets, and East India, you can get nearly all cities to WLTK days (those extra few shields do make a difference over the course of a game), and markets, banks, and SE's become realatively cheap in the mid-game, producing enough cash to rush fisheries and get captured/starved cities back cranking in no time.
 
I usually try to keep my empire in WltKD as well; however, we had lots of happiness problems caused by prolonged wars, and Bazaars wouldn't have fixed that.
The Babylonian one was a necessity; the second Persian one may have been a bit unprepared (lack of RR, mainly).
As a result, we have a lot of underdeveloped cities, especially the coastal ones (and those are the ones where the research comes from). Also, we used Republic; without cash-rushing, it's a lot harder to get outlying cities on track.
However, we are huge now; some serious sets of infra, and we should easily outresearch everyone.
Of course, in SGs there's a general tendency to run Lux as low as possible :rolleyes: - even if that prevents celebrating citzens.
 
I tend to favor research over cash when I can get away with it. If you can get ahead so you are researching techs before the AI, you can stay ahead by researching at 100% and trading for the AI's money which slows them down and makes it easier to out research them. I much prefer this to the opposite where you are funding the AI reseach by buying techs from them.

RaR with its large number of science buildings allows you to do this at Deity more easily than plain C3C I think. You do need the biggest empire to overcome the Deity advantage.

I had a recent emporer level game in C3C where I didn't have any banks when I got the tech for Wall St. There was no point in building them before that (markets are worth building in normal C3C of course for their happiness).

----------------------------------

In this game the reason we didn't build them were the wars. Once the wars finished we were in the scenario above and didn't need them.
 
>I tend to favor research over cash when I can get away with it.

I guess my point was that in RandR it pays to do both, since there are so many (relatively cheap - given the extra shields from mountains, hills, and mined forests, and the ridiculously cheap production boosters like forges, slave markets, and worker housing) boosters for both science and cash. Not just both, actually, but all three. I try to keep the sliders as close to 3 cash, 6 science, and 1 lux as possible. With the usual adjustments to not waste beakers.

As long as you are running any lux at all, East India is insane (would you build a wonder that put markets in all cities? equivalent effect). Rand R is really a builder's paradise, and a welcome change for this builder from the Conquests expansion that really stressed warfare.

Curious as to why you chose Repub over Democracy - I usually run Demo all the way to Social Demo.

>You do need the biggest empire to overcome the Deity advantage.

I've actually found the RandR late game to be more than the AI can handle. My last game I spied on an AI city that had an International Port manned by a lone entertainer...
:rolleyes:
 
I have already posted it in the two other SGs I am partizipating, I'm currently unavailable due computer problems.I will check in here asap, when everything works again.
 
Pre: Wake our last worker to be upgraded.

IBT: Renew wine+spices deal with Russia for Realpolitik + 1gpt. Do not renew tea+silks from India. Machine tools - flight. Bison River Monastery - National Gallery.

1500AD: Start many research improvements. Arrange all worker crew to strength 6, build workers to fill them and stop to build anymore then, since we have enough now.

IBT: Psychology is on the market now.

1510AD: --

IBT: Japan and Russia sign MPP. We learn psychology and the Encyclopedia obsoletes.

1515AD: Babylon gets some buildings for happyness.

IBT: Complete the East India Company in Dakota.

1520AD: --

IBT: Russia wants MPP - no. Flight - Theory of Relativity. India and China start Wonderland. Bison River National Gallery - Central Bank.

1525AD: --

IBT: --

1530AD: --

IBT: China and India sign MPP. Theory of Relativity - Quantum Physics.

1535AD: --

IBT: Do not renew silver for elephants with India. Bison River Central Bank - National Monument.

1540AD: --

IBT: --

1545AD: Quantum Physics - Aviation. Furs, coffee and dyes deals run out. Lux to 10%.

Bison River will complete The National Monument in 2. We will have 3 Stock Exchanges then, so it should build The Wall Street and it's add on then. I would not waste the MGL for a small wonder. Bison River does all of them in a few turns. I let all deals I could run out with India and China. The last will all end in 8 turns, so you can invade them if you want. We could stay peacefull because we outresearch everyone and renew lux deals, but that is not my choice anymore. Good Luck!

Save
 
I agree. I would like a conquest or domination now - timed with Space if you like. I would MA with China against India to get the wonders first, take everyone out and leave Joan with a winter palace somewhere cold.

If we take on India first, then we can renew lux deals with China which will expire before we finish with India, and in any case our Rep will not matter at this stage and we will be just taking the resources. India and China are railed and so conquering them should be quick, both in turns and gameplay time.

Has anyone had a go at RaR Sid? I guess you would need some luck for 100 turns or so, but maybe it could turn out easier than C3C.
 
If we are looking for a challenge then we could switch to Always War. It would definitely prolong the game though.

Beating on China with India's support doesn't sound any more challenging than space to me. I don't see any difference between going for space and going for domination under those conditions. Might as well just cruise to space IMO.
 
Wouldn't change this one to AW - that will be another SG ;).
I'd prefer to head for Space; Dom/Conquest will be even more tedious, and I admittedly never won DyP/RaR by Space since TJ02; this could also be helpful, since that part of the game isn't as well-tested.
Sid (or DocTS) are pretty though in the very beginning; the real problem is when it turns out you lack too many resources; you need Horses+Iron, and some Luxuries. Worth a try, of course.
 
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