grs
nameless one
I now have a headace and will go to bed 
DocT5- The RaR Deity Trial
- Thread starter Doc Tsiolkovski
- Start date
Doc, I see an error in the medieval tech tree. Milling is required for scientific method and not crop rotation. Is this known?
Also to answer your question: No known civ has Mounted Archery (an thus our UU tech).
Early: Wish I had realized the boat we were making wasn't the one we wanted early enough to change it. We were building a Galleas which can't enter sea or ocean.
Set a town to the Heroic Epic for our eventual war. Techs keep petering in. Will give a summary at the end.
Mid: 2 barbarian workers are sacrificed to allow us to steal a gems from Persia and Iron from Germany (I spent 10 gold before to investigate the german city. It also removes any flip chance of for the city. Of course, we are down two foreign workers. Clearly we need an eventual war to get more.
Yow! Persia has over 4000 gold. They also got Mounted Archery which we also get the next turn.
Late: Well Persia got to Athletics first. The run was unsuccessful. I left science at 10% getting it in 4.
Notes:
We need more Cash generating buildings. We are very low.
I built the Shield generating buildings in our capitol. It is over 60 shields and will be building a clock tower (the last) in 2 turns. Once this is done we will want MM it to over 70 shields (if it is not there already) which may require irrigation so we don't starve.
I am really hoping to meet the other continent ASAP. The reason is that they may be past this continent in tech. If so, we may get techs past Education if we meet them before Persia and Babylon get Education.
We stole Germany's only iron, but they have nothing to trade for it. Persia got their gems back.
Techs
We are only missing Athletics in the Ancient Era, but Persia now has it (due in 4).
We have 1 Mounted Warrior (our UU).
The techs we have in the Midieval times are:
Dark Ages, Warrior Code, Invention, Feudalism, Vassalage, Theology, Stirrup, Naval Spirit, Castle Building, Alchemy, Scolasticism, Crop Rotation, Clockworks, Astronomy, Scientific Method, Heraldry, Fundamentalism, Guilds.
Techs we can get next are:
Siege Warfare, Engineering, Usary, Chivalry, Navigation.
I didn't revolt. Right now the only difference between Republic and Monarchy is 5 gold per turn based on unit support. That amount is not going to go over 7 gpt for a very long while. In every other aspect Monarchy and Republic are identical. We would gain a whole lot more than 5 gpt if we spent 4-8 turns build Bazaars and market type buildings instead of the Anarchy. By the time it does start to make some difference, we will want to switch to something that doesn't have Rampant corruption, IMO.
Democracy might be possible. It lowers unit support by 8 and and then doubles the amount (we would go from 2 to 20 right now). On the other hand, it has the commerce bonus so it potentially adds +1 gold per population point which is nearly 60 gold minus corruption times the city improvements like Bazaars. This depends on how large an army we are planning on.
Feudal Monarchy is definitely a win over both Republic and Monarchy for a long time to come in terms of unit support. It has the drawback of WW.
None of these is worth 6+ turns of Anarchy which seems quite possible.
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I think my current vote would be to stay Monarchy, but build some cash producing buildings to keep solvent until the next war. At that point, check for what govt. is best.
Also to answer your question: No known civ has Mounted Archery (an thus our UU tech).
Early: Wish I had realized the boat we were making wasn't the one we wanted early enough to change it. We were building a Galleas which can't enter sea or ocean.
Set a town to the Heroic Epic for our eventual war. Techs keep petering in. Will give a summary at the end.
Mid: 2 barbarian workers are sacrificed to allow us to steal a gems from Persia and Iron from Germany (I spent 10 gold before to investigate the german city. It also removes any flip chance of for the city. Of course, we are down two foreign workers. Clearly we need an eventual war to get more.
Yow! Persia has over 4000 gold. They also got Mounted Archery which we also get the next turn.
Late: Well Persia got to Athletics first. The run was unsuccessful. I left science at 10% getting it in 4.
Notes:
We need more Cash generating buildings. We are very low.
I built the Shield generating buildings in our capitol. It is over 60 shields and will be building a clock tower (the last) in 2 turns. Once this is done we will want MM it to over 70 shields (if it is not there already) which may require irrigation so we don't starve.
I am really hoping to meet the other continent ASAP. The reason is that they may be past this continent in tech. If so, we may get techs past Education if we meet them before Persia and Babylon get Education.
We stole Germany's only iron, but they have nothing to trade for it. Persia got their gems back.
Techs
We are only missing Athletics in the Ancient Era, but Persia now has it (due in 4).
We have 1 Mounted Warrior (our UU).
The techs we have in the Midieval times are:
Dark Ages, Warrior Code, Invention, Feudalism, Vassalage, Theology, Stirrup, Naval Spirit, Castle Building, Alchemy, Scolasticism, Crop Rotation, Clockworks, Astronomy, Scientific Method, Heraldry, Fundamentalism, Guilds.
Techs we can get next are:
Siege Warfare, Engineering, Usary, Chivalry, Navigation.
I didn't revolt. Right now the only difference between Republic and Monarchy is 5 gold per turn based on unit support. That amount is not going to go over 7 gpt for a very long while. In every other aspect Monarchy and Republic are identical. We would gain a whole lot more than 5 gpt if we spent 4-8 turns build Bazaars and market type buildings instead of the Anarchy. By the time it does start to make some difference, we will want to switch to something that doesn't have Rampant corruption, IMO.
Democracy might be possible. It lowers unit support by 8 and and then doubles the amount (we would go from 2 to 20 right now). On the other hand, it has the commerce bonus so it potentially adds +1 gold per population point which is nearly 60 gold minus corruption times the city improvements like Bazaars. This depends on how large an army we are planning on.
Feudal Monarchy is definitely a win over both Republic and Monarchy for a long time to come in terms of unit support. It has the drawback of WW.
None of these is worth 6+ turns of Anarchy which seems quite possible.
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I think my current vote would be to stay Monarchy, but build some cash producing buildings to keep solvent until the next war. At that point, check for what govt. is best.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Republic has the commerce bonus and still a good unit support
; I'd guess that is a bit more than 5gpt...I would still revolt before the GA. Absolute Monarchy (no trade bonus, no WW, Cash-rushing, lower corruption) would be even better, but we cannot count on getting that in time. Good catch on sacrificing those Slaves.
We should definitely build some Longboats to search for other Civs.
Yes, the Milling issue is already known.
Roster:
Greebley -just played
Tinkez - swapped with Greebley
grs - up!
Pfeffersack - On deck
DocT
mad-bax
grs
nameless one
Got it. I will post some thoughts tonight and play over the weekend.
I didn't see anything about the commerce bonus. If it has that then I agree that republic is worth switching to.
I will have to check the Civopedia to see if I just misread it, or whether it is missing from the entry. I thought I checked for it, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.
I will have to check the Civopedia to see if I just misread it, or whether it is missing from the entry. I thought I checked for it, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
me, 'cause I'm responsible for most of the latest Government tweaking...
grs
nameless one
Republic seems a good choice. Unless I see some seroius objections I will revolt asap and try to find more civs.
grs
nameless one
PreTurn: Revolt for 8 turns of anarchy.
...
Some IBTs later: Persia declares on us in the middle of our anarchy
. We lose a guardsman and kill an elephant.
390AD: Santee is lost. I move units out and abandon it.
IBT: We get athletics and navigation from the Great Library.
400AD: We move troops to border cities.
IBT: Persians advance.
410AD: Kill an imperial guard.
IBT: Lose 2 spears, 1 guardsman, 1 champ.
420AD: Kill 2 imperial guards, 3 elephants, 1 immortal.
IBT: Kill an elephant and retreat another. Lose 1 guardsman, 1 pike, 1 sword and Hunkpapa . Catharge is destroyed and we are a Republic now.
430AD: Kill an immortal with our mounted warrior and we enter out golden age. Hurry 2 pikes.
IBT: Kill 1 elephant.
440AD: Kill 2 janissary, 4 elephants and retake Hunkpapa with 193 gold.
Trade Athletics to Germany for a worker and 7 gold.
IBT: Persia and Babylon sign an embargo.
450AD: Kill a Persian arab. pike.
Persia does not talk yet. We are wear compared to them. Should we go for them now? I am clueless.
...
Some IBTs later: Persia declares on us in the middle of our anarchy
. We lose a guardsman and kill an elephant. 390AD: Santee is lost. I move units out and abandon it.
IBT: We get athletics and navigation from the Great Library.
400AD: We move troops to border cities.
IBT: Persians advance.
410AD: Kill an imperial guard.
IBT: Lose 2 spears, 1 guardsman, 1 champ.
420AD: Kill 2 imperial guards, 3 elephants, 1 immortal.
IBT: Kill an elephant and retreat another. Lose 1 guardsman, 1 pike, 1 sword and Hunkpapa
. Catharge is destroyed and we are a Republic now.430AD: Kill an immortal with our mounted warrior and we enter out golden age. Hurry 2 pikes.
IBT: Kill 1 elephant.
440AD: Kill 2 janissary, 4 elephants and retake Hunkpapa with 193 gold.
Trade Athletics to Germany for a worker and 7 gold.IBT: Persia and Babylon sign an embargo.
450AD: Kill a Persian arab. pike.
Persia does not talk yet. We are wear compared to them. Should we go for them now? I am clueless.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
The terrain in the S isn't favorable for us. Bayblon also culture-pressures some crucial cities. Sure, we want Santee2, and we should advance a bit more. But then, I'd turn on Babylon; with their best defenders at 3, they'll make a prime target.
Pfeffersack
Deity
Got it.
War with Persia again...thats bad news.I guess making peace ASAP is the best we can do.I will focus then on building up our forces to prepare our war against Babylon
War with Persia again...thats bad news.I guess making peace ASAP is the best we can do.I will focus then on building up our forces to prepare our war against Babylon
Pfeffersack
Deity
Currently playing and now in turn 3.Any objections gainst a quick war against Germany? They have made peace with Babylon and own a source of iron...imagine to trade it...in RaR iron sells up to 120 GpT.We have a lot of troops down there, Persia only rarely attacks and we can make peace wit them in a few turns anyway.Germany has only its capital Köln, Bremen (somewhere far away, so we wouldn't extinc them) and Teton (which has deposed in the first IBT)
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
IIRC they also have Gold. Could we resettle Santee already?
ANd where's Teton? No objections against a war, btw.
ANd where's Teton? No objections against a war, btw.
Hi all! I'm back 
Few remarks after reading 4 days happenings: The boat we were building at the end of my turn was the best at the moment we could build at the moment GL went online, I forgot to change it to a better one on my last turn
I agree that we should try to acquire Gold, as it is needed for most of cash-related buildings. Go for it Pfeffersack!
Few remarks after reading 4 days happenings: The boat we were building at the end of my turn was the best at the moment we could build at the moment GL went online, I forgot to change it to a better one on my last turn
I agree that we should try to acquire Gold, as it is needed for most of cash-related buildings. Go for it Pfeffersack!
grs
nameless one
If you can spare the troops take the city!
Pfeffersack
Deity
@ DocTS
Tenon has flipped and I have founded Santee again.
Yes, that was exactly the problem...Persia kept me busy with small but steady attacks, so I decide to make first peace with them and use them time to support the assult with some trebuchets.But for some strange reason Persia keeps still (turn 7) refusing negotiations...I always thought the span for this is 10 turns
And to make things even worse, babylon sneak attacked us in my 7. turn...we haven't lost a city at the moment, but I have little hope for Ashur.
I regret some of my buidling decisions now (for example building those unit producing wonders in our capital), I have simply underestimated the danger of such an attack.I have never played Deity before and never experienced such a frequence of attacks
Only possitive news: We got a MGL in combat with Persia (which is the main reason for posting again before finishing my turns)! Now the question what to do with it...my suggestion would be creating an army and filling it with knights or MWs, we will need it to deal with masses of Babylonian Horse Archers, Mujahs and Kinghts.Any objections or better idea?
Tenon has flipped and I have founded Santee again.
grs said:
Yes, that was exactly the problem...Persia kept me busy with small but steady attacks, so I decide to make first peace with them and use them time to support the assult with some trebuchets.But for some strange reason Persia keeps still (turn 7) refusing negotiations...I always thought the span for this is 10 turns
And to make things even worse, babylon sneak attacked us in my 7. turn...we haven't lost a city at the moment, but I have little hope for Ashur.
I regret some of my buidling decisions now (for example building those unit producing wonders in our capital), I have simply underestimated the danger of such an attack.I have never played Deity before and never experienced such a frequence of attacks
Only possitive news: We got a MGL in combat with Persia (which is the main reason for posting again before finishing my turns)! Now the question what to do with it...my suggestion would be creating an army and filling it with knights or MWs, we will need it to deal with masses of Babylonian Horse Archers, Mujahs and Kinghts.Any objections or better idea?
I would make an army. I think a knight (or Cavalier) army would be best.
We were 1 turn away from a Longship on the end of my turns, but see no sign of it. I think we can really benefit by trying to cross the sea and get the techs from the other continent. This could be potentially be a big win for selling techs back and forth. Why did we switch away from it? Or did it sink?
We were 1 turn away from a Longship on the end of my turns, but see no sign of it. I think we can really benefit by trying to cross the sea and get the techs from the other continent. This could be potentially be a big win for selling techs back and forth. Why did we switch away from it? Or did it sink?
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Yes, make an Army.
If we loose Ashur, we have a problem...our Horses!
Looks like I'll get an interesting set of turns (not that I see anyone making a mistake!).. :suicide:
If we loose Ashur, we have a problem...our Horses!
Looks like I'll get an interesting set of turns (not that I see anyone making a mistake!).. :suicide:
Pfeffersack
Deity
Doc Tsiolkovski said:Yes, make an Army.
If we loose Ashur, we have a problem...our Horses!
Looks like I'll get an interesting set of turns (not that I see anyone making a mistake!).. :suicide:
Yes, it might get interesting - the 10 turns I have played today are surely the most exciting civ turns I ever had
I noticed the problem with the horses, too...and concentrated to hold Ashur(beside my first goal - holding Bison River...I don't want to image to fail in this mission
) - which I was able, to my surprise.Nevertheless we might loose the horses the next turn for a time, because Babylon managed to get three Pikes on the tile...However, I don't think the situation looks to bad - we got a second MGL in one of my last turns...so we are able to make a second army.And even if spending shields on the Knights Templar and the Royal Tournament wasn't the best idea, they will starting pumping out units soon...
Here is the log:
450 BC (PT)
- upgraded a Spearman, 2 Chariots and the Horseman from Hunkpapa in Lakota (all veteran units, I think we could need a boost in comabt strength)
- sold all 5 worker housings we have and got 25 gold - they are obsolete since Feudalism and only cost us maintenance
- MM Ashur to add production and switched production then to Pikeman (2t), because the city is undefended
- switched production in Teton from MW (19t - too ineffective, IMHO) to walls (4t)
- MM Little Bighorn, Wounded Knee (reason: to reduce wasted shields), Oglala (focus on production, EH now in 4t) and Nakota (production, Knight now 3t)
IBT:
- Babylon and Germany sign peace
- Babylon retreats troops from battlefield and those single horse archer near oglala moves on the tile next to our nearly undefended capital...
- Germany and Persia sign trade embargo against us
- Persia sends only a pikemen and a Janissary in our territorium(near Hunkpapa) and retreats its longboat; no attack this turn
- Teton deposes to Germany
- Lakota expands borders
460 BC (1)
- Bison River: MW --> Royal Tournament (3t, with MM and negative growth for the next turns)
- Little Bighorn: Pikemen --> Barracks (MM, 2t)
- Wounded Knee: Pikemen --> Pikemen (MM, 2t)
- MM Lakota to get Pikmen in 2t
- upgraded another Spearman in Lakota
- various troop movements...I don't like undefended cities
- Persia still refuses to talk...
Military report: Defeated 1x Janissary [1x elite prom]
IBT:
- The Great Library gives us Siege Warfare, our current research project, switched to engineering (19t)
- Persia moves the Pikemen to the tile SE Lakota, and they cruise with a second longboat near Dakota
- Babylon initiates Knights Templar
470 BC (2)
- Ashur: Pikemen --> Pioneer (2t) (to rebuild Santee)
- Conducted an investigation Köln to be safe side.They have 3 Spearmen in the city and are currntly building a crusader (9 turns).Since the city is on a hill I will build 2 or 3 trebuchets to support our assault.It will delay the attack a few turns, but I would wait anyway until Persia is willing to make peace.
- Dakota: MM and production switched to Galeass (to fight against the Persian Longboat there) (1t)
- Wounded Knee: MM and production switched to Trebuchet (1t)
- Hunkpapa: production switched to Trebuchet (4t)
- Upgraded a Spearman in Wounded Knee
- MM Lakota (to max out commerce)
- Persia still doesn't talk
IBT:
- The GL gives us map making, we can build now the International Port
- another Persian Pikeman shows up at the Persian border
- Babylon inititates Copernicus Observatory
480 BC (3)
- Little Big Horn: Barracks --> MW (4t)
- Wounded Knee: Trebuchet --> Trebuchet (2t)
- Dakota: Galeass --> Barracks (2t)
- Nakota: Knight --> Knight (7t)
- Lakota: Pikeman --> MW (6t)
- Send out our galeass to S, spotted the Persina Longboat and a heavily injured barb vessel
- Persia refuses again
IBT:
- Persia sends 2 elephants towards Lakota
- the barb vessel attacks our Galleas, but loses (no damage)
490 BC (4)
- Little Bighorn: Royal Tournament --> Knights Templar (3t)
- Ashur: Pioneer --> Knight (6t)
- Oglala: Heroic Epic --> MW (5t)
- Persia...*wait*
Military report: Defeated 2x Elephants, 2x Pikemen, 1x Longboat [1x vet prom]
IBT:
- Germany offers exchange of T-Maps...
- lost a knight due a Persian counter attack
500 BC (5)
- Wounded Knee: Trebuchet --> Knight (3t)
- Dakota: Barracks --> Knight (7t)
- moving our new galeass towards Persia, we spot the second persian Longboat again
- still no peace...but I'm alreday collecting forces for the attack on Köln...
IBT:
- Persia throws in 4 more Jumbo; two of them attack my fortified forces on the hill.Lost a Pike, but killed the second elephant.
- GL gives us Engineering; researching now Cavalry (14t)
510 BC (6)
- Hunkpapa: Trebuchet --> Pikeman (9t)
- no peace possible again...
Military report: 3x Elephants, 1x Longboat [1x slave, 1x elite prom]
IBT
- BABYLON DECLARES WAR! We loose some slaves and workers; Wounded Knee successfully defends against an attacking horse archer
520 BC (7)
- Bison River: Knights Templar --> Knight (1t)
- Little Big Horn: MW --> Pikeman (2t)
- Lakota: MM and production switched to Pikeman (1t)
- Oglala : MM and production switched to Pikeman (1t)
- Dakota: switched production to Carrack (5t) to discoevr the new continent, perhaps before the GLexpires...
- Nakota: MM and switched production to Pikeman (1t)
- upgraded Tribal Guardsmans in Little Bighorn and Nakota and the archer in Lakota
- founded Santee II at the same spot as Santee; buidling project: walls (5t)
- Spawned MGL during combat with Persia
- PERSIA REFUSES STILL...
Military report: Defeated 1x Elephant, 1x H.A., 1x Muj., 2x Knight [1x MGL, 3x slaves, 1x elite promotion]; lost 1x M.W.
IBT
- Nakota (against 1 horse archer) and Ashur (vs. 2 horse archers, pikemen inside promoted to elite) defend sucessfully.Never theless the situation is dramatic, we are sweep by Babylonian forces and Ashur is likely to fallin next turn.Lost a stack of workers to Babylon and the Horseman against Persia, which has spawned the leader.However, the Pike which protects the leader defeats an attacking Elephant and our leader is still alive!!!
530 BC (8)
- Bison River: Knight --> Knight (1t)
- Ashur: Knight --> Walls (1t) (insane luck the city holds out this turn to complete the knight)
- Wounded Knee: Knight --> Pikeman (2t)
- Oglala: Pikeman --> Pikeman (3t)
- Nakota: Pikeman --> Walls (2t)
- Lakota: Pikeman --> Pikeman (4t)
- switched production in dakota to Knight and rushed it! (2 pop lost)
- Converted Leader in Santee into army and filles in two vet knight
- PERSIA FINALLY TALKS AGAIN...and they are willing to GIVE US 10GpT for making peace!!! Of course I accepted. (I decided to go for GpT since I don't want to have too much cash in the bank if Babylon conqueres cities from us)
Military report: Defeated 1x Elephant, 1x ImpGuard, 3x Knights, 3x H.A. [1x elite promotion, 2x enslavement]
IBT:
- Ashur holds out another turn (forced on attacking Horse Archer to retreat and defeated another).Nakota holds too, but lost one defending Pikeman.
- Persia sends an Elephant towards our border again...should they plan a new attack? But this time I'm prepared...
- SAD NEWS: The GL gives as Education and will expire...
- China completes Copernicus Observatory
540BC (9)
- Bison River: Knight --> Kinght (1t)
- Little Big Horn: Pikeman --> Pikeman (2t)
- Ashur: Walls --> Pikeman (4t)
- Dakota: Knight --> Pikeman (8t)
- MM Hunkpapa, Pikeman now 3t
- got another MGL during combat with Babylon!
Military report: Defeated 1x Muj., 2x HA, 1x Knight, 1 Galley [got 2 Slaves and 1 MGL].No losses, one retreat.
IBT:
- Ashur holds again.Defeated 3 attacking knights and 2 HA with a single elite pikeman...and a second will come in as reinforcement this turn!
- Hunkpapa holds against a knight which is forced to retreat
550BC (10):
Bison River: Knight --> Knight (1t)
Wounded Knee: Pikeman --> Pikeman (2t)
Nakota: Walls --> Pikeman (5t)
Military report: Defeated 3x Knights, 1x ImpGuard, 1x H.A. [2 el. prom]
End-NOTE: I have fortified some offensive units with movement left (Bison River, Wounded Knee, Santee II) , which I haven't used for tactical reasons this turn.And we still have a second MGL in Bison River around.My intention was to use him for a second army, but I haven't converted him (because I want to put in the *elite-unit), so the decision is up to the next player/to all of us.
Attachments
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Great job, Pfeffersack!
Got it.
May I emphasize this? Due to the slower road movement in RaR, the sneak attacks come with a delay, but whoever left the capital undefended, is responsible for the Babylonian sneak attack most likely
Got it.
grs
nameless one
That was me. I had to chose between moving all units to the Persian front or losing even more than 1 city.
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