Election 2024 Part III: Out with the old!

[Farm Boy]

When nations commit genocide through starvation and active shootings and bombings of children, then blow up people in neighboring capitals, we dispatch F22s and, contrary to all precedent, disclose that we've dispatched a boomer to erase said capital should retaliation for these actions happen.

Dead kids, at home and abroad, actuality seem the priority. Something something the environment. Let's make synthetic coal, refuse to tax 400,000 income households, and dictate the price of our bouge consumption.

Who is liable for chewing my food for me these days?

 

[Lexicus]

Israelis have no agency. Got it. While I could agree that arms sales be cut off, had that happened once the current war started, the result would be exactly the same number of Palestinians dead and wounded.

Oh, they have agency and Biden knows it. What's happening now is the shooter has the school barricaded up is shooting all the kids, and the parent is continuing to give the kid ammunition to reload his gun with full knowledge of the situation. You know, as long as we're talking relative levels of culpability.

Anyway idk what effect it has on the election but damn it sucks to see

 

[Angst]

The Weirdness of Manufactured Joy

What can be unburdened by what has been.

sashastone.substack.com

sourcecheck for anyone that didn't click the link, sasha seems to be an obscure kook who spends most of her time whinging about hollywood being too woke, her podcast unironically called "Free Thinking for the Fourth Turning", where i believe the fourth turning is a reference to an idea this i believe, that there is a cyclical societal self-destruction of sorts over a set # of generations; an idea that may be legitimate, but is superficially hilariously remniscent this infamous brainfart ; as if naming your podcast Free Thinking [Insert Anything] wasn't hilarious enough

 

[Lexicus]

AOC is dead to the left now, long live Tlaib

 

[Voidwalkin]

I read that link, too. It's representative of current young right wing thinkers competing for attention in a media environment in which the audience is already primed by groupthink and social pressure to accept certain positions and unflattering characterizations of the left.

These are largely unpersuasive and ridiculous to those outside that bubble.

However, it does have some elements of truth. There really is growing hostility to what can and has(even by leftist thinkers) been called an almost religious orthodoxy of thought influential mostly amongst urban white liberals. The reckless ostracizations, double standards of sympathies, when combined with the tendency to only produce symbolic victories devoid of meaningful changes in social mobility, it really has led to major general antipathy AFAICT. Trump's coalition is simply not viable without hatred of many things, and hate of modern liberalism really does sit prominently amongst them.

 

[Narz]

However, it does have some elements of truth. There really is growing hostility to what can and has(even by leftist thinkers) been called an almost religious orthodoxy of thought influential mostly amongst urban white liberals. The reckless ostracizations, double standards of sympathies, when combined with the tendency to only produce symbolic victories devoid of meaningful changes in social mobility, it really has led to major general antipathy AFAICT. Trump's coalition is simply not viable without hatred of many things, and hate of modern liberalism really does sit prominently amongst them.

Yeah, the online left is like that bullied kid that you stick up for but are also a bit embarrassed by.

 

[Sommerswerd]

AOC is dead to the left now, long live Tlaib

Grogan?

EDIT: NVM... you're talking about her DNC speech, I get it.

On a related note, the speeches of both Michelle Obama and Barack Obama, the latter especially had a very strong conciliatory, "reach-across-the-aisle" tone. Obama's speech was clearly intended to appeal to more conservative voters. It had a very palpable "C'mon y'all, lets be friends" vibe to it. He didn't use his iconic "we're not blue states and red states we're the United States" line, but he was echoing that sentiment.

Michelle delivered a line that I don't remember word for word, but it was something along the lines of asking people not to insist on perfection from their candidate. It was much more diplomatic and soft-toned than Hillary's obnoxious "get over yourselves" quip about a year or so back, but the message was there. They are extending an olive branch to more conservative leaning voters who don't like Trump and offering them a new home for this cycle and asking Democrats to rally, even if it means putting major concerns aside for the election. I will note that convention overall has succeeded in striking a more hopeful, joyful tone than usual, which I believe has been the goal.

Like you, I don't know how effective/persuasive this conciliatory tone is going to be...

Hey @Farm Boy? You buying?

 

[Farm Boy]

@Farm Boy? You buying

Democrats in administration for four years, prices in the toilet. Not really in a buying stance.

 

[JollyRoger]

What an Obamanation last night . . . didn't even wear the tan suit

 

[aelf]

prices in the toilet.

Like the backalley-aborted homonculi in your world.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

I will note that convention overall has succeeded in striking a more hopeful, joyful tone than usual, which I believe has been the goal.

Like you, I don't know how effective/persuasive this conciliatory tone is going to be...

Hey @Farm Boy? You buying?

Total anecdote, but my parents are the middle-upper-class-suburban-Michigan-former-straight-ticket-Republicans-who-loved-Reagan-and-Bush-and-are-the-‘country club’-Republican-and-have-been-racist-and-transphobic-most-my-life-but-are aghast-at-the-GOP-under-Trump-voters that this seems aimed at, and the first thing my mom said the other day about Kamala was that she thought her policies were too left wing but that she loved how positive she has been and how she seems to truly love America and she (and my dad) are excited to vote for her. FWIW though they had already jumped to the Dem party in 2020.

 

[Lexicus]

EDIT: NVM... you're talking about her DNC speech, I get it.

One specific line from it. Kamala Harris is not "working tirelessly toward a ceasefire" and it's an insult to everyone's intelligence to pretend she is.
It is so, so depressing to see her say that. I have been defending AOC and cutting her slack all this time while many leftists have been calling her a sellout...smh

To be clear i would be happy about her speaking at the DNC in general, but i am very angry that she used that platform to tell a lie that undermines the actual movement that is trying to bring about a ceasefire. There is a lot of space between calling Joe Biden a genocidal war criminal and actively telling lies to whitewash the administration's record.

 

[Sommerswerd]

What an Obamanation last night . . . didn't even wear the tan suit

Harris wore the tan suit in her cameo on the first night.

Total anecdote, but my parents are the middle-upper-class-suburban-Michigan-former-straight-ticket-Republicans-who-loved-Reagan-and-Bush-and-are-the-‘country club’-Republican-and-have-been-racist-and-transphobic-most-my-life-but-are aghast-at-the-GOP-under-Trump-voters that this seems aimed at, and the first thing my mom said the other day about Kamala was that she thought her policies were too left wing but that she loved how positive she has been and how she seems to truly love America and she (and my dad) are excited to vote for her. FWIW though they had already jumped to the Dem party in 2020.

I'll take it. Welcome... pull up a chair. Beggars can't be choosers... as the saying goes...

 

[Sommerswerd]

One specific line from it. Kamala Harris is not "working tirelessly toward a ceasefire" and it's an insult to everyone's intelligence to pretend she is.
It is so, so depressing to see her say that. I have been defending AOC and cutting her slack all this time while many leftists have been calling her a sellout...smh

To be clear i would be happy about her speaking at the DNC in general, but i am very angry that she used that platform to tell a lie that undermines the actual movement that is trying to bring about a ceasefire. There is a lot of space between calling Joe Biden a genocidal war criminal and actively telling lies to whitewash the administration's record.

Yeah that's the line in particular which seems to be what has a lot of folks upset with her.

About you defending AOC... Looking back at some of our previous discussion on this topic, in response to your comments about Tlaib, I'd said:

All she ever gets in return for speaking truth to power is an endless stream of scorn. She's probably weary of carrying that water... AOC probably is too.

Bowman just lost largely because of his outspoken, uncompromiaing opposition to Israel's invasion of Gaza. Tlaib and AOC aren't oblivious to that.

I think that AOC backing Biden and/or opposing/ expressing skepticism about replacing Biden is partly that she recognizes Biden has been overall relatively friendly and beneficial to progressive causes, and partly a reflection of her balancing activism with pragmatism. If Biden loses, AOC can run in 2028. If Biden wins, she has earned a powerful ally. Harris or Newsom winning accomplishes none of these.

Now, not only has Bowman been sacrificed on the altar of criticizing Israel/US policy on Israel-Gaza, but Cori Bush as well. Ilhan Omar won, but I'm continuing to get the sense that AOC is engaging in a little bit of "live-to-fight-another-day"/strategic retreating, as opposed to full bore mercenary politics, or "selling out" as you referenced.

Like I mentioned before, she also seems to be trying to build some political alliances and increase her clout within the party. If she's going to run for POTUS eventually, which, I tend to think she plans to, she is probably thinking that she needs to soften her firebrand image a little.

I also think she may have grown weary of being on the outside (of the decision-makers) looking in, and she is trying to get a seat at the big table, instead of always being shut outside yelling. I guess some folks might call that selling out, but its showing some savvy and pragmatism.

So with Harris specifically, she was defending Biden as the candidate/nominee. That seemed politically shrewd at the time, but now that Biden is gone, she has some ground to make up. She has to get on team Harris and I think that speech was part of it. Pelosi got Biden to see the light and drop out, so AOC's efforts to support Biden were in vain, except that it demonstrated, to Pelosi and the rest of the party, that she could be a loyal team player.

I don't know if Nancy Pelosi sat her down for tea/coffee and told her that the two of them needed to make up and they needed to get on the same page, if she wanted a political future, but I wouldn't be surprised if something like that happened. AOC is a star in the party, Pelosi has to see that... I guess my point is don't count AOC out yet.

 

[Farm Boy]

Chickens come home to roost.

 

[Sommerswerd]

That's fair, since in the prior conversation I was referencing, part of what we were discussing was that nobody prominent for the Democrats had said that about the Trump assassination attempt.

 

[Farm Boy]

Bouge gonna bouge.

All hype and presentation, skin deep. From the people that immediately canceled school lunch when they had the power to.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Who canceled school lunch? . They're still doing it in these parts.

EDIT: According to this article, Illinois has school lunch... so now I really don't know what you're talking about. Is the article wrong?

https://www.nycfoodpolicy.org/states-that-have-passed-universal-free-school-meals/

 

[Farm Boy]

Canceled the federal program that paid for school lunches nationwide. Michelle's plan, until Trump actually did it.

Edit: the article is either wrong or out of date. School lunches are not free in Illinois.

Though I did get a letter telling me that my child qualified for assistance for lunches, that the money was loaded on an account they don't give me, and was for helping buy lunches over summer 2024. Vinny or Tony already blew that money. Welcome to the gerrymandering supermajority.

 

[Voidwalkin]

I hadn't considered what AOC's political ambitions may be before. An interesting ponder.

I don't think the presidency is in her future, regardless of whether she intends it to be.

Oddly, Harris has proven really versatile, and I thought her less perceptive than her recent actions have shown her to be. At the very least, she can take good advice(if her current campaign rhetoric isn't her own brain child). She's gone economic, even anti-corporate a little, and hasn't featured herself as top prosecutor as heavily as I'd feared, even if it's not wholly absent. Nor has she kowtowed to progressives when her interests are to ignore them.

I don't think AOC as star of the progressives can be maintained while adopting a comparable versatility, which would be necessary. She may try this redefinition, but she'd lose em, and probably lose her headlines and high profile alongside. Absent that re-imagining, she'd need to wait for the views of her(she and I are the same age, so also my) generation to be the dominant influence, which will take two decades, by which point.. not a exciting enough to win a GE, but perhaps an important leader.