Election 2024 Part III: Out with the old!

Who do you think will win in November?


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This was an eye opening read into the heart of being MAGA.

I've Traveled Across The Country To Attend Trump Rallies. Here's What You Won't See On TV.​

"The real action takes place while everyone is waiting for the rally to start, not during the actual speech."





Read that earlier elsewhere.
 
Go to Your account -> Settings -> Account Details and Location is one of them, it's visibly printed on all our posts below our profile pics.
Not on this website. Jokers users hide their location all the time. It is creepy for a user to put down an area of the world while they hide where they are located. It's creepy. If they hide, contrary to your suggestion, then I can't see it.

It's like many Europeans I talk with who tell me that racism does not exist in Europe. Honey, one of Europe's main exports to around the world has been racism and it is alive and well there. And then, por example, they tell me that Black Peter is not racist. It's creepy.
 
Read that earlier elsewhere.
It's tailgate culture. Pretty big in America. I dunno if other places do it. Happens in college and NFL football. A surprisingly high number of people at the stadium don't actually have tickets to see the game. They watch it on TV in the stadium parking lot after grilling and partying.
She should go to Ohio now just to plant the message, "my campaign believes that most Americans don't think their neighbors are eating their pets." Trump insulted Ohio with that reference, and she should deliver a contrasting message while the insult is fresh.
The dogs and cats line was such a gift to the Harris campaign. He made himself look like your crazy older co-worker who believes all the most ridiculous ****. It was a texts from grandma moment.

What's surprising to me is that Vance very likely floated it first, presumably with Trump's OK, and Trump went with it anyway, despite the time to observe the negative reaction to it. This reaction was not purely "oh, the horrible racism", which Trump is pretty obviously willing to live with, but "what nonsense". I suspect campaign staff didn't want it pushed. Only Trump is that unorthodox. And it was a total misread. He's slipping.

Yeah, she could visit Ohio and say something equivalent to "Trump thinks you're all stupid enough to believe ravenous gangs of marauding Haitians intend to abduct and eat Emperor Dogimus, fur and all."
 
I think Harris should put some Ohio stops on her rally tour, with the slogan "I want Ohio." "I want to take small town Ohio out of the hands of a guy who wants to make you afraid of your neighbors. Who treats you like you are afraid of your neighbors. I'm gambling that small town Ohioans are not afraid of their neighbors, and they don't want a presidential candidate to cast them as such." I'm not necessarily saying I think she could win Ohio, but she might leverage the momentum she's already built to open a new line in the campaign. One thing I said about the election of Obama was that people mostly care about two things--pocketbook issues and security--and a candidate should always hammer both of those things. But they care somewhat about one more thing, and that is how they can think of themselves. Some Americans voted for Obama because they wanted to tell themselves, "see, we're not an irredeemably racist society." I think she might have some traction with a "No, that [how Trump is casting us] is not us" style of campaign. It jibes with her overall message, so it's not so much of a departure. And one remembers how the people in MI and WI and PA spoke after Clinton: we just wish she'd visited. Who knows what a couple of rally stops might do. Put Iowa in the mix, too, on the strength of Walz's popularity one state north.
My Dad grew up in Ohio, I grew up visiting Ohio multiple times a year, sometimes 5 or 6 times in the same year, including Thanksgiving. The way to appeal to Ohio, is to show up in American-brand (GM/Chrysler/Ford) vehicles and talk about tradition, and increasing automobile manufacturing, that's it. Folks in Ohio are generally just extremely regular American... football, beef and potatoes... moderate, moderate, moderate... they like things to be as normal as possible. The land is flat, you can see a hundred miles in every direction. The attitudes of the electorate reflect the literal lay of the land. Being as regular as possible is exciting in Ohio... just come off as regular. The irony is that Democrats can maybe take Ohio from Trump if they highlight his extremism and can get away with being as moderate as possible.
 
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It's pretty hilarious that some of the most vocal critics of JD Vance and Trump picking him as his running mate - are people from Ohio. The very people that elected him senator in the first place. A phrase often repeated is that 'he doesn't represent people in Ohio' and he's often described as a 'sellout'. Their words.

Trumps narcissism runs so deep, that he can't help surrounding himself with people constantly praising him in the media. Even if these people are clueless clowns and continuously say things in public that actually hurt his election chances not only among moderates and swing voters - but also within the Republican party itself, as we're currently observing with the Greene/Loomer cabal. Trump probably enjoys watching these two ultra-MAGA females fight over who's the most loyal or disloyal to him; he doesn't have the mental capacity to understand why this is likely a negative for his chances to be elected.
 
It's a testament how well off people actually are that their biggest worry is someone eating Fido and Fluffy.

If things were actually presently going to hell they wouldn't be able to afford living full time in lala land.

People in the past had to deal w some real ****, our descendants will have to deal w some real **** (thanks to us not dealing with it) but right now our biggest concern is how mentally ill the populace is.
 
It's a testament how well off people actually are that their biggest worry is someone eating Fido and Fluffy.

If things were actually presently going to hell they wouldn't be able to afford living full time in lala land.

People in the past had to deal w some real ****, our descendants will have to deal w some real **** (thanks to us not dealing with it) but right now our biggest concern is how mentally ill the populace is.

The belief is not trivial and harmless just because it is outlandish and untrue. You should think what they intend to do to "fix" it.
 
It's a testament how well off people actually are that their biggest worry is someone eating Fido and Fluffy.

If things were actually presently going to hell they wouldn't be able to afford living full time in lala land.

People in the past had to deal w some real ****, our descendants will have to deal w some real **** (thanks to us not dealing with it) but right now our biggest concern is how mentally ill the populace is.

Bro this rhetoric is going to get people hurt and killed

Like what is the difference between this and blood libel? It's all but calling for "action" against a historically marginalized group
 
The belief is not trivial and harmless just because it is outlandish and untrue. You should think what they intend to do to "fix" it.
Hopefully there will be no violence against Haitians. Hopefully more people will rally to their support more than will believe the goofery.

But yeah you're right it's potentially harmful. I meant more that the people who eat that stuff up need real problems to worry about not that they don't create real problems.

All the mental illness and imaginary problems gonna create real one down the line.
 
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The dogs and cats line was such a gift to the Harris campaign. He made himself look like your crazy older co-worker who believes all the most ridiculous horsehocky. It was a texts from grandma moment.

What's surprising to me is that Vance very likely floated it first, presumably with Trump's OK, and Trump went with it anyway, despite the time to observe the negative reaction to it. This reaction was not purely "oh, the horrible racism", which Trump is pretty obviously willing to live with, but "what nonsense". I suspect campaign staff didn't want it pushed. Only Trump is that unorthodox. And it was a total misread. He's slipping.

Yeah, she could visit Ohio and say something equivalent to "Trump thinks you're all stupid enough to believe ravenous gangs of marauding Haitians intend to abduct and eat Emperor Dogimus, fur and all."


I can't believe it was a planned thing. More likely Vance was just free associating the way Trump does. And it caught on based on the negative reaction to it.
 
What has been the maga crowds' response ?
Anything short of saviour level worship?
 
What has been the maga crowds' response ?
Anything short of saviour level worship?
from what i can tell, it hasn't moved much. trump/reps has a very, very dedicated base (at least on an electoral college level) that's incredibly hard to sway. that floor is really high. he could crap on the table. doesn't matter. because he's jesus.

however, the ceiling for the base is also really low. kind of, at least. trump has to raise voters elsewhere and at least atm dems are better at getting the moderates and undecideds (dems also has the largest untapped base of people that don't vote). i don't think the pet eating thing or "concepts of a plan" or his immediate refusal to do another debate (posture wins are important sadly) help him much with those people.

edit neat i just started ranting.
basically for your actual question, it didn't affect his base much no
 
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Being as regular as possible is exciting in Ohio... just come off as regular. The irony is that Democrats can maybe take Ohio from Trump if they highlight his extremism and can get away with being as moderate as possible.
Especially since Walz, at least, is precisely that "regular guy." There's a video of him talking about how clean people keep their gutters, and how a gutter-helmet will help you do that. Have him make the stops in Ohio. I don't care. But as a part of your message, say, "we believe better about the people of Ohio than Trump does."
 
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Hopefully there will be no violence against Haitians. Hopefully more people will rally to their support more than will believe the goofery.

But yeah you're right it's potentially harmful. I meant more that the people who eat that stuff up need real problems to worry about not that they don't create real problems.

All the mental illness and imaginary problems gonna create real one down the line.

Haitians have already been harmed by this stuff, why post if you don't bother to stay informed?
 
Moderator Action: Back to topic and please keep things civil. -lymond
 
Christian Conservatives Face Reality: Increasingly, They Stand Alone

As opposition to their agenda grows, especially on abortion, many conservatives are grappling with how to handle this new uncertain political world.

By Elizabeth Dias and Ruth Graham

Sept. 13, 2024

On a recent Tuesday afternoon, Sam Brownback, the former governor of Kansas and a champion of socially conservative causes, asked a small crowd of his fellow Christian voters if they were feeling discouraged.

Inside this church in Grapevine, Texas, nearly every hand shot up.

The response might seem mystifying: These voters had won huge victories, most notably in overturning Roe v. Wade, which had guaranteed the constitutional right to abortion.

And Mr. Brownback sat alongside a former football coach whose victory in another Supreme Court decision allowing prayer on the field symbolized the court’s decisive swing in their favor.

But with the presidential election closing in, hope suddenly felt thin. Powerful efforts to “suffocate” their values seemed to be everywhere, Mr. Brownback said to widespread agreement.

He tried to offer reassurance. He recounted the biblical story of Gideon, who triumphed in battle against a vast army with only 300 men by his side.

“God never needs a majority,” he said. “All he needs is a faithful remnant.”

As opposition to their social agenda grows, particularly on abortion, many conservative Christians are experiencing whiplash as they grapple with an uncertain future.

For years, many evangelical Christians and Catholics operated with the sense that they were a silent majority. If they could simply motivate enough of their fellow Christians to vote, they believed they could win, and often they did.

By all indications, conservative Christians are poised to vote again overwhelmingly for former President Donald J. Trump in November. But now, they are facing the reality that many of their views are not widely held, and that to advance their goals nationally they need power at the highest levels — power that Mr. Trump suddenly seems less inclined to give.

In that way, the coming election feels like a referendum on the role of conservative Christianity in American public life. And some conservative Christians worry that it is a race that is harder and harder to win.

The country is growing more secular and pluralistic by the year, with regular church attendance declining. Many leaders in the Republican Party, their political home for decades, have gone silent about their opposition to abortion rights and same-sex marriage. And, Mr. Trump, the man once considered to be their strongest champion, is publicly distancing himself from their causes, even as he attacked Democrats in the presidential debate for their support of reproductive rights.

For decades, their views have been embraced and pushed by the Republican Party. When Mr. Trump ran for president in 2016, he made a promise — “Christianity will have power” — to groups unsure of his loyalty to their cause. Even after he lost re-election in 2020, Mr. Trump gave them overwhelming victories through the judicial system he remade. Overturning Roe was the culmination of a generational battle for conservative Christians, delivering a victory that amounted to one of the biggest political resurgences in American history.

But in this post-Roe era, the political landscape has grown increasingly fraught for them.

“We had been on offense for 50 years, and now they’re on offense,” said Ralph Reed, a longtime conservative operative who led the Christian Coalition in the 1990s. “That doesn’t mean that we won’t ultimately prevail, it just means that we’re in a different season in that struggle.”

In some cases, their priorities are more visible than ever, particularly in states that are Republican strongholds. The chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court invoked their God in a landmark ruling declaring that frozen embryos had rights as children. Oklahoma required that public schools teach the Bible, in an extraordinary blurring of religious instruction and public education.

But the end of Roe led to mainstream backlash that they have struggled to navigate. Christian activists’ opposition not only to abortion, but also to I.V.F. and some forms of contraception, has proved deeply unpopular with voters. Their movement has transformed from an asset to a liability, prompting Mr. Trump and other Republicans to soften their once-staunch opposition to abortion rights and same-sex marriage.

It is far from clear that a second Trump administration would abandon their movement.

Senator JD Vance of Ohio, the Republican vice-presidential nominee, remains deeply committed to their vision, maintaining his staunch opposition to abortion rights and belief in the primacy of the traditional family. Mr. Trump’s allies have spent years making detailed plans, outlined in Project 2025, to enact a socially conservative agenda that could transform not only abortion rights but also marriage, education, transgender rights and the role of Christianity in American public life. And even if Vice President Kamala Harris wins the election, there’s no swift way for Democrats to reverse the impact the Trump administration had on the federal judiciary.

But conservative Christians are frustrated. Mr. Trump seems “disinclined” to reach out to his Christian base, said Cole Muzio, the president of Frontline Policy Action, a group in Georgia that pushes for “Godly policies” with a network of conservative Christian organizations.

Even the mailers the Trump campaign and the Georgia Republican Party have sent to his house are vexing, Mr. Muzio said.

The fliers point out that “Donald Trump is against Project 2025, which I am for; and that Donald Trump is pro-I.V.F. mandate, which I am against; and that Donald Trump believes that some abortion access is good and should be ultimately decided by states, and that’s what we’ve always wanted, and I disagree with that premise,” he said.

Bunni Pounds, who heads Christians Engaged, an organization that works with churches to register and influence conservative Christians, said she was disappointed that the new Republican Party platform had removed a reference to marriage being between a man and a woman.

“The Trump campaign has made it harder for people like me who are trying to galvanize the Christian vote,” she said.

At the very least, she said, she was confident that “Bible-believing Christians” would not be voting for Ms. Harris.

At the event in Texas, the emcee, Ian Giatti, a reporter for The Christian Post, described the mood this year in his circle as a more extreme version of the “Hold your nose and vote” atmosphere of 2016. That year, eight in 10 white evangelicals voted for Mr. Trump, but there was a vocal current of dissent and disappointment. In 2020 the share was similar, but with more enthusiasm given all Mr. Trump had accomplished for them.

Mr. Giatti recently produced a podcast episode criticizing the delivery of a Sikh prayer at the Republican National Convention.

“There was this real sense that the Republican Party no longer is the home for conservative Christians,” he said. “There’s a sea change, and it definitely feels deliberate.”

The scope of their communities’ core causes is also continuing to widen. In 2020, Wenyuan Wu, a researcher and recent evangelical convert, helped start the Californians for Equal Rights Foundation to fight things like race-conscious admissions and diversity, equity and inclusion programs in the wake of the state’s push for affirmative action.

Though the political climate, especially in California, seems hostile to her cause, she said, “it is possible to score small victories.” Her group sued California in 2021, ultimately resulting in the removal of Aztec and African prayers from the public school curriculum.

“People like me may be in the minority, but we believe that Christianity will stand the test of time,” she said. “It is not going to be propped up or hammered down because of an election.”

The mobilization effort is also pressing ahead. Wisconsin Family Action, a Christian advocacy group, is on track to put an insert into the Sunday bulletins of

at least 700 evangelical churches in the state, urging worshipers to vote. It is a fourfold increase from the 2022 midterms, said Daniel Degner, interim president of the group.

He said that he was “not at all concerned” about the preservation of conservative Christian values.

He thought of the biblical book of Romans. “If the Apostle Paul was able to influence government for God’s purposes and God’s designs in Rome, where they were literally killing Christians for being Christians,” he said, “I believe we can still influence government for Christian values in America today.”

Elizabeth Dias is The Times’s national religion correspondent, covering faith, politics and values. More about Elizabeth Dias

Ruth Graham is a national reporter, based in Dallas, covering religion, faith and values for The Times. More about Ruth Graham
See more on: 2024 Elections: News, Polls and Analysis, Republican Party, Donald Trump, Sam Brownback, J.D. Vance
 
Gotta defend those late terms. Maximum freedom optimization for God money.

Everyone is the same crappy little killers they were in 2010.
 
Except that the censorship that has been going on is right wingers censoring books, beer, and anything else that disturbs their snowflakery.
The right thinks that's the correct censorship. The moderates might not like that either, but who knows? Half of them are right-wingers who just don't want to admit it, if you listen to what they say.
 
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