Enemy of the People

[JollyRoger]

Until CNN follows Hannity's lead and reads Trump bedtime stories every night, they are obviously liberal trash.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/05/sean-hannity-donald-trump-late-night-calls.html

 

[onejayhawk]

I could also say the same about Trumpland, its weird with all these scandals and increased lying that Republican support is still so strong.

For once we agree, though in their case it's not so scary.

Perhaps it would help if you dropped the increased lying meme. It was never true, just a political talking point for never-Trumpers. He exaggerates a ton and uses a lot of misdirection, but he doesn't outright lie. Several weeks later you can generally make out what he actually meant.

J

 

[FriendlyFire]

For once we agree, though in their case it's not so scary.
Perhaps it would help if you dropped the increased lying meme. It was never true, just a political talking point for never-Trumpers. He exaggerates a ton and uses a lot of misdirection, but he doesn't outright lie. Several weeks later you can generally make out what he actually meant.J

Politicians do lie, except theres three major problems with Trump

1. is that Trump often tells lies which are extremely damaging to himself
2. is that Trump lies about the little most inconsequential things
3. Is the number of lies

Generally a normal person would improve and learn, Trump is getting worse

 

[Valka D'Ur]

He exaggerates a ton and uses a lot of misdirection, but he doesn't outright lie. Several weeks later you can generally make out what he actually meant.

He has outright lied so many times, it would take a historian with a time machine to count them all!

 

[FriendlyFire]

Gratest Bigliest Lier of all time !

 

[Perfection]

What arguments do I need to sort out showing the fake news label was unearned? You'll need a different quote if you want to discuss what it means to be un-American. Again, I'm not interested in 'equally bad'. Both parties and their mouthpieces flood the country with propaganda and both accuse the other of being un-American. I dont know if its possible to be un-American, I'm not sure what it means. I just think its funny for media people to get mad when they're called un-American while they're accusing critics of being un-American.

Trump merely isn't calling news outlets "fake news" he's calling them "the enemy of the people".

The term "enemy of the people" should be reserved for actual enemies. People who may need to be met with force in order to protect American lives. It should not be used against news outlets who report stuff Trump doesn't like.

 

[Hrothbern]

The direct bottom line is that people and their children being raised with a sense that honesty and thruths are important values... learn that it is normal and => acceptable that the governmental leader(s) of their country continuously lie or are accused of lying.

To expose children to this is imo criminal
To expose adults to it unwise

The indirect bottom line is that Trump is the enemy from within, in and for the institutions that made the US great.
The press a bystander or a tool, if not the court fool.

 

[onejayhawk]

Trump merely isn't calling news outlets "fake news" he's calling them "the enemy of the people". The term "enemy of the people" should be reserved for actual enemies. People who may need to be met with force in order to protect American lives. It should not be used against news outlets who report stuff Trump doesn't like.

It is not a lie. At most it's spin.

For a substantial fraction of the country, the press is hostile, eg gun owner, social or fiscal conservative, pro-life activist, cake baker in Colorado. It is not an exaggeration to say they are attacked. For them, the media is the enemy.

Instead, they defend an avowed racist like Sarah Jeong. Hate is OK if you hate whites. Antifa acts like fascists, but that's OK since they attack conservatives.

J

 

[Lexicus]

It is not a lie. At most it's spin.

For a substantial fraction of the country, the press is hostile, eg gun owner, social or fiscal conservative, pro-life activist, cake baker in Colorado. It is not an exaggeration to say they are attacked. For them, the media is the enemy.

Instead, they defend an avowed racist like Sarah Jeong. Hate is OK if you hate whites. Antifa acts like fascists, but that's OK since they attack conservatives.

J

The Mask Slips: Why There Is Really No Difference Between Fascists and "Libertarians", Part IV

 

[FriendlyFire]

It is not a lie when Republicans do it. At most it's spin.J

Fixed
Why was CLINTON IMPEACHED again ?

 

[Berzerker]

yes, democrats and republicans both suck, the two party system sucks, we get it

this doesn't make every jab at republicans hypocritical because both groups being bad does not mean both groups are equally bad

i can level a criticism at republicans without giving a democrat a happy under the table and so can most people here, so i don't get the need to constantly bring up how bad democrats are whenever republicans are disparaged. are you trying to be subversive? because that's my thing

But it does make it hypocritical to call Trump un-American while complaining about him calling opposition media enemy of the people. If the Democrats didn't suck too they wouldn't be open to the accusation of hypocrisy. Whats the saying? First remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye.

You've used this phrase a number of times, it seemed to refer only to MSNBC at one point, can I assume you've now broadened it to include any media outlet that isn't Fox?

MSNBC is what I watch and I know it skews my perception of the Democrat media, but that doesn't mean I consider everyone else minus Fox in their camp. Thats why my OP asked for media outlets that are not so biased in their news coverage.

Trump merely isn't calling news outlets "fake news" he's calling them "the enemy of the people".

The term "enemy of the people" should be reserved for actual enemies. People who may need to be met with force in order to protect American lives. It should not be used against news outlets who report stuff Trump doesn't like.

Do Democrats consider Trump an enemy of the people? When people call him un-American, aren't they arguing he is the enemy of Americans or Americanism? I find both terms offensive, the accuser has effectively set them self up as the arbiter of what we should believe. "Who died and made you King?" comes to mind...

 

[Lexicus]

MSNBC is what I watch and I know it skews my perception of the Democrat media, but that doesn't mean I consider everyone else minus Fox in their camp. Thats why my OP asked for media outlets that are not so biased in their news coverage.

This doesn't explain what you understand by the phrase "Democrat media." Can you give a list of examples of what you consider to be "Democrat media"?

Do Democrats consider Trump an enemy of the people? When people call him un-American, aren't they arguing he is the enemy of Americans or Americanism? I find both terms offensive, the accuser has effectively set them self up as the arbiter of what we should believe. "Who died and made you King?" comes to mind...

Trump and the entire Republican Parties are the most devoted and dangerous enemies of America and Americanism. The Republican Party is the only organization that I actually, unironically consider to be "enemies of the people" in this sense. Calling terrorist groups or foriegn nations "enemies of the people" dignifies them in a way that is unnecessary. Only the Republican Party actually presents an existential threat to American institutions and the physical and mental safety of millions of Americans.

 

[Berzerker]

This doesn't explain what you understand by the phrase "Democrat media." Can you give a list of examples of what you consider to be "Democrat media"?

Democrat media - media that defends the Democrats and attacks critics, mostly the GOP but also people fed up with both parties. MSNBC has plenty of media people on from other outlets to join the fray but I haven't been compiling a list. Hell, I get accused of being a Republican when I criticize Democrats and now I'm getting lectured that criticizing Republicans doesn't make you a Democrat. If media spends 24/7 criticizing Republicans and defending Democrats, they're the Democrat media.

Trump and the entire Republican Parties are the most devoted and dangerous enemies of America and Americanism. The Republican Party is the only organization that I actually, unironically consider to be "enemies of the people" in this sense. Calling terrorist groups or foriegn nations "enemies of the people" dignifies them in a way that is unnecessary. Only the Republican Party actually presents an existential threat to American institutions and the physical and mental safety of millions of Americans.

This is where I'd run down a list of horrors perpetrated by the Democrats... And be accused of 'whataboutism' by their defenders.

 

[Ryika]

There's nothing wrong with being an opinionated reporter though, as long as you're not Acosta who acts like a political activist yet wants to wear the mantle of a guy who just reports the news.

 

[Lexicus]

Democrat media - media that defends the Democrats and attacks critics, mostly the GOP but also people fed up with both parties. MSNBC has plenty of media people on from other outlets to join the fray but I haven't been compiling a list. Hell, I get accused of being a Republican when I criticize Democrats and now I'm getting lectured that criticizing Republicans doesn't make you a Democrat. If media spends 24/7 criticizing Republicans and defending Democrats, they're the Democrat media.

So MSNBC is the only actual example?

This is where I'd run down a list of horrors perpetrated by the Democrats... And be accused of 'whataboutism' by their defenders.

Well, yeah, because it would be whataboutism. And you know it perfectly well.

 

[Berzerker]

So MSNBC is the only actual example?

How many do I need and why? If you dont think MSNBC qualifies as Democrat media you'll just argue other examples dont qualify either.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2014/2/2/1274385/-A-List-of-Political-News-Sources-Left-to-Right

and that doesn't include a bunch of organizations, think tanks, etc supplying the talking heads invited on to tell us Trump called neo-Nazis fine people or betrayed us at Helsinki or whatever spin they're pushing at the moment.

Well, yeah, because it would be whataboutism. And you know it perfectly well.

whataboutism - attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument

What is this argument I'm supposed to refute when identifying hypocrisy? Jesus asked the Pharisees who among them was without sin. Was that 'whataboutism'? He charged them with hypocrisy, the accusation was true and they knew it - they dropped their stones and walked away ashamed. The Republicans are guilty of all sorts of crimes... So are the Democrats. And thats why Democrats accuse critics of 'whataboutism', they dont like it when people question their moral authority to cast stones.

 

[Lexicus]

How many do I need and why? If you dont think MSNBC qualifies as Democrat media you'll just argue other examples dont qualify either.

Remarkably perceptive. But I would like more examples to illustrate where this concept of "Democrat media" begins and ends in your mind.

tell us Trump called neo-Nazis fine people or betrayed us at Helsinki or whatever spin they're pushing at the moment.

To me, statements like this suggest you literally think of any media that doesn't report Trump's lies as fact as "Democrat media".

Democrats accuse critics of 'whataboutism'

I don't accuse all critics of the Democratic party of "whataboutism." For example, my criticisms of the Democratic Party are not examples of whataboutism. Not all of yours are, either...just most of them

 

[Berzerker]

Remarkably perceptive. But I would like more examples to illustrate where this concept of "Democrat media" begins and ends in your mind.

I explained where it begins and ends:

Democrat media - media that defends the Democrats and attacks critics, mostly the GOP but also people fed up with both parties.

To me, statements like this suggest you literally think of any media that doesn't report Trump's lies as fact as "Democrat media".

What lies? The Democrat media repeatedly showed Trump claiming there were fine people on both sides of a protest that turned into a brawl. But instead of video of both sides and the brawl, they show video of a night time march of neo-Nazis with tiki torches shouting about Jews. Is that Trump's lie?

And in Helsinki the Democrat media claimed Trump betrayed us when he didn't stand there next to Putin accusing him of lying. Can you imagine the Democrat media calling Obama a traitor for standing next to a dictator without calling him a liar? "Obama the traitor meets Putin and doesn't call him a murderous thug, news at 11!"

I don't accuse all critics of the Democratic party of "whataboutism." For example, my criticisms of the Democratic Party are not examples of whataboutism.

How do you decide when someone is guilty or innocent of whataboutism?

Not all of yours are, either...just most of them

Do you have an example? If Republicans accused the Democrats of lying us into war, would it be whataboutism to mention Republicans lied us into war? I mean, I constantly see Democrats throwing hypocritical accusations back at Republicans. But I dont see Democrats accusing each other of whataboutsim when they do. When Jesus asked the Pharisees if they were without sin, was that whataboutism? Is the saying 'people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones' whataboutism? Just how are you defining the term?

 

[Lexicus]

What lies? The Democrat media repeatedly showed Trump claiming there were fine people on both sides of a protest that turned into a brawl. But instead of video of both sides and the brawl, they show video of a night time march of neo-Nazis with tiki torches shouting about Jews. Is that Trump's lie?

Look, I'm not sure why you keep repeating this crap, literally no one here who's not a nazi believes this and the nazis all think it's good that Trump called them fine people.

How do you decide when someone is guilty or innocent of whataboutism?

A little thing we call c o n t e x t

 

[Berzerker]

Look, I'm not sure why you keep repeating this crap, literally no one here who's not a nazi believes this and the nazis all think it's good that Trump called them fine people.

The only people I've seen calling neo-Nazis fine people are Trump's accusers. The Democrat media has been quite effective with their propaganda. But I'll believe my own eyes, I know Trump was asked about the day time brawl when he said there were fine people on both sides. There were no both or many sides when the neo-Nazis marched at night, just them and their torches. If you said a group of people were fine and media showed your words next to a video of people who are not fine to smear you, would you consider that fake news? I would and I dont have a dog in that fight.

A little thing we call c o n t e x t

Go on... but I'd still like to see an example of whataboutism.