Enemy of the People

[FriendlyFire]

The only people I've seen calling neo-Nazis fine people are Trump's accusers. The Democrat media has been quite effective with their propaganda. But I'll believe my own eyes, I know Trump was asked about the day time brawl when he said there were fine people on both sides. There were no both or many sides when the neo-Nazis marched at night, just them and their torches. If you said a group of people were fine and media showed your words next to a video of people who are not fine to smear you, would you consider that fake news? I would and I dont have a dog in that fight.

Your going to twist yourself into a pretzel trying to defend everything that Trump says
Because were around 2500 Lies already,

You wanna defend Trump behaviour, frequency of lying and how much of this was taken out of context or sensationalised by the Media ?
Then you want to explain Trumps apology then Berzerker and then Trump walkback of hes Apology ?

And then there are all these scandals that are happening right now.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Your going to twist yourself into a pretzel trying to defend everything that Trump says
Because were around 2500 Lies already,

You wanna defend Trump behaviour, frequency of lying and how much of this was taken out of context or sensationalised by the Media ?
Then you want to explain Trumps apology then Berzerker and then Trump walkback of hes Apology ?

And then there are all these scandals that are happening right now.

B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-But! Her Emails!

 

[Perfection]

It is not a lie. At most it's spin.

For a substantial fraction of the country, the press is hostile, eg gun owner, social or fiscal conservative, pro-life activist, cake baker in Colorado. It is not an exaggeration to say they are attacked. For them, the media is the enemy.

I'm not really seeing the hostility. I mean maybe they're not entirely fair to those belief but outright hostility to the point of being worthy of the moniker "enemy of the people", I'm not seeing it.

Instead, they defend an avowed racist like Sarah Jeong. Hate is OK if you hate whites. Antifa acts like fascists, but that's OK since they attack conservatives.

You gonna cite that weaksauce junk as your argument for the media being worthy of the title "enemy of the people"?

Sarah Jeong is as much racist as James Gunn is a pedophile.

Do Democrats consider Trump an enemy of the people? When people call him un-American, aren't they arguing he is the enemy of Americans or Americanism? I find both terms offensive, the accuser has effectively set them self up as the arbiter of what we should believe. "Who died and made you King?" comes to mind...

Okay,
1. "un-American" implies counter to American values whereas "enemy of the people" is actively intent to harm US civilians, to act like both are equivalent is silly
2. He's the friggin' president. He should treat his speech as if it's official US policy or else he's not respecting the office. When I talk I'm just stating my opinion.
3. Trump lashes out these comments as an attempt to undermine the legitimacy of media outlets that report his legitimately concerning behavior. He is not speaking truth. When I describe him as un-American because he demonstrates values that are counter to those central to US democracy, I am speaking truth.

 

[Berzerker]

"Its totally, totally illegal if it is a meeting with foreign citizens trying to help the Trump campaign, federal law makes it a crime for a foreign national to quote directly or indirectly help an American campaign with financial contributions or quote another thing of value. Federal election law recognizes opposition research as quote a thing of value. Federal election law makes it a crime to quote solicit, accept or receive a thing of value to a campaign from a foreign national." - Lawrence O'Donnell

Lawrence proceeded to admit we dont know if the Trump campaign got any dirt on Hillary... But we do know Hillary's campaign did get dirt on Trump from a foreign national. So where's the outrage about that? Oh, we cant talk about that hypocrisy, thats 'whataboutism'. Hillary buys dirt and thats okay, Trump doesn't buy dirt and its an illegal conspiracy yada yada.

Your going to twist yourself into a pretzel trying to defend everything that Trump says Because were around 2500 Lies already,

You wanna defend Trump behaviour, frequency of lying and how much of this was taken out of context or sensationalised by the Media ? Then you want to explain Trumps apology then Berzerker and then Trump walkback of hes Apology ?

And then there are all these scandals that are happening right now.

Why am I obliged to defend everything Trump says? I'm not even defending what he said about fine people on both sides of a brawl. What exactly did Trump walk back? He clarified he wasn't talking about neo-Nazis. I knew that, its the Democrat media having trouble telling the difference between neo-Nazis marching around with tiki torches and a bunch of protesters and counter protesters duking it out over a statue.

Okay,
1. "un-American" implies counter to American values whereas "enemy of the people" is actively intent to harm US civilians, to act like both are equivalent is silly
2. He's the friggin' president. He should treat his speech as if it's official US policy or else he's not respecting the office. When I talk I'm just stating my opinion.
3. Trump lashes out these comments as an attempt to undermine the legitimacy of media outlets that report his legitimately concerning behavior. He is not speaking truth. When I describe him as un-American because he demonstrates values that are counter to those central to US democracy, I am speaking truth.

Enemy of the people doesn't imply counter to American values? Silly semantics... The House un-American activities committee considered 'subversives' to be enemies of the people. When media outlets show Trump's words about fine people on both sides of a brawl accompanying video of neo-Nazis marching around at night shouting about Jews, is that speaking the truth?

 

[FriendlyFire]

"Its totally, totally illegal if it is a meeting with foreign citizens trying to help the Trump campaign, federal law makes it a crime for a foreign national to quote directly or indirectly help an American campaign with financial contributions or quote another thing of value. Federal election law recognizes opposition research as quote a thing of value. Federal election law makes it a crime to quote solicit, accept or receive a thing of value to a campaign from a foreign national." - Lawrence O'Donnell

Lawrence proceeded to admit we dont know if the Trump campaign got any dirt on Hillary... But we do know Hillary's campaign did get dirt on Trump from a foreign national. So where's the outrage about that? Oh, we cant talk about that hypocrisy, thats 'whataboutism'. Hillary buys dirt and thats okay, Trump doesn't buy dirt and its an illegal conspiracy yada yada.

Lock Rudio up as well, because hes was the one that iniated Steele Dossiar research Wheres the outrage about that ?
What about the NRA recieveing Russian money as well as helping a Russian Spy Wheres the outrage about that ?
Roger Stone meet with Russian intelligence agent Wheres the outrage about that ?
Coffeeboy Paradopolous travel to UK to meet with Russian asset Wheres the outrage about that ?
Russian spy who was at the Trump tower meeting turned up for the Trump inguration Wheres the outrage about that ?

Like I said with J

1) Is there any differance between an ALLY the UK and an adversary RUSSIA ?
2) If this was a crime why did Steele pass on hes information directly to the FBI ?
3) Why did Rudio campaign pay for the Steele for opposition research ?

 

[Perfection]

Enemy of the people doesn't imply counter to American values? Silly semantics... The House un-American activities committee considered 'subversives' to be enemies of the people. When media outlets show Trump's words about fine people on both sides of a brawl along side video of neo-Nazis marching around at night shouting about Jews, is that speaking the truth?

Serious semantics. Enemy of the people does imply counter to American values but counter to American values (eg un-American) does not imply enemy of the people. The distinguishing feature being intent. If someone slags free speech as unimportant, I'd consider that un-American, but I would not call them an enemy of the people because their intent isn't harm Americans (even though their if their political actions would harm Americans if carried out),

People often disagree about what is fair and true. If Trump merely wants to call the reporting biased, unfair, or untrue that's one thing, but to engage the press as if all journalists who portray him in a less than positive light are enemies of the people is highly inappropriate for a man sworn to protect the constitution.

 

[onejayhawk]

Serious semantics. Enemy of the people does imply counter to American values but counter to American values (eg un-American) does not imply enemy of the people. The distinguishing feature being intent. If someone slags free speech as unimportant, I'd consider that un-American, but I would not call them an enemy of the people because their intent isn't harm Americans (even though their if their political actions would harm Americans if carried out),

People often disagree about what is fair and true. If Trump merely wants to call the reporting biased, unfair, or untrue that's one thing, but to engage the press as if all journalists who portray him in a less than positive light are enemies of the people is highly inappropriate for a man sworn to protect the constitution.

If you think this was ever about Trump and only Trump, then you have missed the whole discussion.

J

 

[Perfection]

If you think this was ever about Trump and only Trump, then you have missed the whole discussion.

J

Trump's behavior is clearly part of the discussion and it's also something I find highly disturbing so I commented on it.

 

[Lexicus]

Go on... but I'd still like to see an example of whataboutism.

Obviously we're done here, except I'll note it's funny you won't give me examples of the Democrat media but you want examples of whataboutism from me

 

[Berzerker]

I did give you an example and you complained about getting only one, so I gave you a link with several examples.

Jesus - Who among you is without sin, let him cast the first stone
Pharisees - How dare you call us hypocrites, thats rank whataboutism!

 

[Berzerker]

Lawrence O'Donnell is very upset... A Democrat challenging a Republican in Ohio for a House seat is trailing by several hundred and the Green candidate has over a thousand. Lawrence sneers at how the Green party is costing the Democrat the seat. Not a fan of democracy I guess

Kris Kobach is losing so far, yay. That snake slithered (I apologize to snakes) around the country promoting voter suppression in the name of honest elections and then he got fined for contempt of court and stuck the taxpayers with the bill.

uh oh, he's only ~2k behind now.

crud, Kobach is winning now...

 

[FriendlyFire]

Lawrence O'Donnell is very upset... A Democrat challenging a Republican in Ohio for a House seat is trailing by several hundred and the Green candidate has over a thousand. Lawrence sneers at how the Green party is costing the Democrat the seat. Not a fan of democracy I guess

Kris Kobach is losing so far, yay. That snake slithered (I apologize to snakes) around the country promoting voter suppression in the name of honest elections and then he got fined for contempt of court and stuck the taxpayers with the bill.
uh oh, he's only ~2k behind now.
crud, Kobach is winning now...

I dunno Berzerker, you did Elect Sam Brownback TWICE
To be fair all the Republican primary candidates looked pretty terrible it looks like a case of choosing ones own poison.

 

[Dachs]

Lawrence O'Donnell is very upset... A Democrat challenging a Republican in Ohio for a House seat is trailing by several hundred and the Green candidate has over a thousand. Lawrence sneers at how the Green party is costing the Democrat the seat. Not a fan of democracy I guess

Uh, for real? The Consumerist Party for Republican Governance has every right to contest elections, and everybody else has the right to complain about it being stupid. There's nothing antidemocratic about this.

 

[Berzerker]

maybe we dont agree on what it means to be a fan of democracy... I'd think a fan would welcome people casting votes for the candidate of their choice, not having a hissy fit because a thousand people didn't vote the way you wanted them to vote.

 

[FriendlyFire]

maybe we dont agree on what it means to be a fan of democracy... I'd think a fan would welcome people casting votes for the candidate of their choice, not having a hissy fit because a thousand people didn't vote the way you wanted them to vote.

Republicans especially news presenters never complained at all during the eight years of Obama (Muslim Kenyan) Presidency /s
To be fair Berzerker most Democrats are in full panic mode since the Trump Presidency upset Every election lose is more closely followed & played up for maximum effect.

 

[Lexicus]

maybe we dont agree on what it means to be a fan of democracy... I'd think a fan would welcome people casting votes for the candidate of their choice, not having a hissy fit because a thousand people didn't vote the way you wanted them to vote.

"having political opinions is undemocratic"

 

[Berzerker]

is it possible to have an undemocratic political opinion?

straw men are bad enough without putting them in quotes

 

[Hrothbern]

is it possible to have an undemocratic political opinion?

straw men are bad enough without putting them in quotes

That depends on the definition of democracy
if democracy is reduced to counting noses......

 

[Berzerker]

get out the vote!

you voted for the other guy?

$%^&*()*&^%#

that isn't what I meant

 

[Lexicus]

is it possible to have an undemocratic political opinion?

Yeah, but an undemocratic political opinion would be something like "I don't believe in having elections" or "an electoral system that allows a candidate who gets less votes than another candidate to win an election is legitimate", not "these people voted in a dumb way"