Farmboy, I feel you

The path to healing and stopping the next Trump starts with reaching out to our rural communities.
 
That article was a great read. Thanks.
 
This article is fairly interesting. A lot of it I already know (the economics stuff, and how a lot of the people voting for Trump really are hurting - in fact I recently said something to this effect to @metalhead, and unfortunately he never responded). I can't relate to the pop culture references, eg this:

You've never rooted for somebody like that? Someone powerful who gives your enemies the insults they deserve? Somebody with big fun appetites who screws up just enough to make them relatable? Like Dr. House or Walter White? Or any of the several million renegade cop characters who can break all the rules because they get horsehocky done? Who only get horsehocky done because they don't care about the rules?

I don't watch House or Breaking Bad. I regard those renegade cop movies as fascist propaganda.

"But those are fictional characters!" Okay, what about all those millionaire left-leaning talk show hosts? You think they keep their insults classy?

Again, I regard those left-leaning talk show hosts as bourgeois pricks. I liked Jon Stewart, and I could do Colbert from time to time, but I really don't understand why people watch talk shows. Like, I more readily understand why people watch reality TV than why they watch talk shows.
 
All it took was someone I respect of the righty persuasion referring me to this article
I got empathy for ya.

I still dont understand why they choose, Trump a wealthy, billionaire, born and raised in the cities, and has the same cultural standings and values as Democrats while Trump has a long history of screwing over the little and poor people
Yes I do feel bad for Republican states which are going backwards, but then these states have solid Republican control and most have been disastrous.
 
That's explained in the article. It also explains why thinking of things in terms of 'Republican states' isn't useful in this context.
 
Again, I regard those left-leaning talk show hosts as bourgeois pricks. I liked Jon Stewart, and I could do Colbert from time to time, but I really don't understand why people watch talk shows. Like, I more readily understand why people watch reality TV than why they watch talk shows.

Cause the jokes are funny.
 
That's explained in the article. It also explains why thinking of things in terms of 'Republican states' isn't useful in this context.

That they hate Democrats so much they are willing to be bent over and raped up the rear end, just to spite us ?
But thats like cutting of your arm, just to stab us in the hand. Could Republicans instead spend time and hate, you know fixing the problems ?
 
This is something I've been thinking a lot about in my recent formative adult years. I've had bosses that are not that old -- just 60 -- that could speak to the impact of the rural electrification act. I can't imagine the impact of just the interstate highways across the US (a program kicked off in 1956; my parents were born shortly after).

Many millennial liberals will talk about free college for everyone or free community college or something. With complete disregard to the trade or major being studied, and really a disregard for geography. The 100,000th english major can sign up no problem. You'll pump a kid through an ever increasing in cost nursing or electrician or IT certification program with no one hiring nearby.

But particularly these small towns in mid america or the west -- you're 2 hours or more away from a major university. You may or may not have a community college, with little programs available. Your family definitely has no money for college. You're available trade school option is to work in joe's shop, if you wanted to do anything of the sort. 100% going to be a first generation college in your family.

We have to get people placed into guaranteed work-study programs. We can't just throw education at people without a purpose towards a job, nor rely on the jobs to help people get the education. We're way oversaturated in education, companies have 0 obligation to help out on a degree, which is needed to be competitive for the job. We have to look at things realistically and have some progressive initiatives in place thhat may be restrictive in people's choices, but it'll be reliable.
 
That they hate Democrats so much they are willing to be bent over and raped up the rear end, just to spite us ?
But thats like cutting of your arm, just to stab us in the hand. Could Republicans instead spend time and hate, you know fixing the problems ?
one the comments is that some faction of trump supporters would cut off one of their arms to deprive those they deem undeserving from getting the similar help they need. Get over it. Sometimes the higher road seems unrewarding, but in the big picture its worth it.
 
Thomas Frank's Listen, Liberal, and a number of his columns on The Guardian, in particular this one from March, are the most insightful things I've ever read about this phenomenon. Another good book by Joe Bageant is Deer Hunting with Jesus.

I grew up in a two-stoplight town in southeastern Indiana. My father taught at a tiny liberal arts college there, so we were upper middle class transplants in a small working-class town. Looking back on it, the college professors as a group were some of the most bigoted I've ever seen. I remember our crude stereotypes of rural lower-class white people and the way we dismissed and judged people who weren't in our social class. The worst thing about it all is that we were likely the best-behaved college professor family in town - most of the rest were worse, and people actually breathed a sigh of relief when they realized that we weren't that bad.

There's been a long, slow-burning, ignored crisis among rural and some suburban American whites. Drug abuse rates and suicides are through the roof, exceeding that of every American ethnic group except maybe some Native American groups. Polls consistently show these people are consistently the most pessimistic about their odds to get ahead. They woke up from the American Dream. Essentially any reason to live has gone out the window for a lot of people, and the wave of fundamentalism and "family values" in the 1980s-2000s was part of an effort to bring meaning to people who otherwise had none. This is now receding, and the despair is leading to new waves of nativism and right-wing populism both here and in much of the rest of the Western world. It goes even deeper because of the disdain that people within the liberal establishment have for them - the non-college-educated are social pariahs and they are reminded of this at every opportunity. That's a recipe for anger and successful demagoguery.
 
But we are specifically focusing on them vis a vis Trump support. Thanks for the input.

And you still didn't learn, because you're still being condescending towards those rural areas in singling them out for "trump support". It seems to me that that kind of articles trying to find the "causes of the problem" are part of the problem. They define an "us" (the authors and intended readers of the article, the superior ones) and a "them" (the "problem" people, who must be helped because they can't help themselves, who can't be taken seriously as capable of political choice and manifestation on their own). But what do I know?
 
Thomas Frank's Listen, Liberal, and a number of his columns on The Guardian, in particular this one from March, are the most insightful things I've ever read about this phenomenon. Another good book by Joe Bageant is Deer Hunting with Jesus.

I grew up in a two-stoplight town in southeastern Indiana. My father taught at a tiny liberal arts college there, so we were upper middle class transplants in a small working-class town. Looking back on it, the college professors as a group were some of the most bigoted I've ever seen. I remember our crude stereotypes of rural lower-class white people and the way we dismissed and judged people who weren't in our social class. The worst thing about it all is that we were likely the best-behaved college professor family in town - most of the rest were worse, and people actually breathed a sigh of relief when they realized that we weren't that bad.

There's been a long, slow-burning, ignored crisis among rural and some suburban American whites. Drug abuse rates and suicides are through the roof, exceeding that of every American ethnic group except maybe some Native American groups. Polls consistently show these people are consistently the most pessimistic about their odds to get ahead. They woke up from the American Dream. Essentially any reason to live has gone out the window for a lot of people, and the wave of fundamentalism and "family values" in the 1980s-2000s was part of an effort to bring meaning to people who otherwise had none. This is now receding, and the despair is leading to new waves of nativism and right-wing populism both here and in much of the rest of the Western world. It goes even deeper because of the disdain that people within the liberal establishment have for them - the non-college-educated are social pariahs and they are reminded of this at every opportunity. That's a recipe for anger and successful demagoguery.

I agree with all this, but on a certain level it's difficult for me to have sympathy for people who constantly rail against socialism and communism, and yet the things they complain about, and evidently are motivating them to vote for Trump, are practically the textbook social consequences of capitalism.
 
This is something I've been thinking a lot about in my recent formative adult years. I've had bosses that are not that old -- just 60 -- that could speak to the impact of the rural electrification act. I can't imagine the impact of just the interstate highways across the US (a program kicked off in 1956; my parents were born shortly after).

Many millennial liberals will talk about free college for everyone or free community college or something. With complete disregard to the trade or major being studied, and really a disregard for geography. The 100,000th english major can sign up no problem. You'll pump a kid through an ever increasing in cost nursing or electrician or IT certification program with no one hiring nearby.

But particularly these small towns in mid america or the west -- you're 2 hours or more away from a major university. You may or may not have a community college, with little programs available. Your family definitely has no money for college. You're available trade school option is to work in joe's shop, if you wanted to do anything of the sort. 100% going to be a first generation college in your family.

We have to get people placed into guaranteed work-study programs. We can't just throw education at people without a purpose towards a job, nor rely on the jobs to help people get the education. We're way oversaturated in education, companies have 0 obligation to help out on a degree, which is needed to be competitive for the job. We have to look at things realistically and have some progressive initiatives in place thhat may be restrictive in people's choices, but it'll be reliable.

At the same time, I know handful of english majors that turned their skill into marketing jobs in the video game industry because they had connections in the industry since birth. They're not entirely useless but there needs to be a firm direction given with the skills learned.

Another problem is that some people really are not suited for higher education. I consider myself one. I have more than adequate aptitude for the job I have, maybe only dwarfed by my willingness to help my coworkers do their job. I think that I have absolutely benefitted from job security and the ability to grow into my job. But there are people who aren't as lucky as I am to be afforded the opportunity I have that similarly have problems with school work. It doesn't make us little lost causes, it means we need help finding our way to what can work for us. I have a huge chip on my shoulder about this, I know this. Honestly, I got lucky, I want everyone to have this similar opportunity that I have.
 
And you still didn't learn, because you're still being condescending towards those rural areas in singling them out for "trump support". It seems to me that that kind of articles trying to find the "causes of the problem" are part of the problem. They define an "us" (the authors and intended readers of the article, the superior ones) and a "them" (the "problem" people, who must be helped because they can't help themselves, who can't be taken seriously as capable of political choice and manifestation on their own). But what do I know?

Yeah, screw me for trying and being earnest, for one of the few times in my life.
 
I mean is it possible to identify a real issue vis a vis the rural plight in America without being condescending? The symptom is Trump support! Show me the way or get out of the way.
 
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Who knew "to kill a mocking bird" was a documentary of small rural town America ?
If it makes you feel any better, those rubes are probably equally bigoted against what they perceive as the lowest classes, Gays, Mexicans, African American.

You think just the rural areas are in crisis ? Inner cities have a lot of problem just a different sort, with its own gun violence, crime, mass of homeless, drugs and illegals
Thanks to illegal botched wars, insane deregulation and worldwide financial crisis. Good Job Republicans, God help you Rual people in places like Kansas, you seem intent on voting in the worse possible politicians which then slaughter the poor.

I grew up in a two-stoplight town in southeastern Indiana. My father taught at a tiny liberal arts college there, so we were upper middle class transplants in a small working-class town. Looking back on it, the college professors as a group were some of the most bigoted I've ever seen. I remember our crude stereotypes of rural lower-class white people and the way we dismissed and judged people who weren't in our social class.

There's been a long, slow-burning, ignored crisis among rural and some suburban American whites. Drug abuse rates and suicides are through the roof, exceeding that of every American ethnic group except maybe some Native American groups.
 
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That's why I watched Justified/Banshee for a couple of seasons. Hillbillies, meth and rogue sheriffs go great together.
 
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