Ferguson

[Bamspeedy]

I served on one.

There's a lower standard for your verdict: "on this evidence, could a reasonable person believe a crime might have been committed." So, by that standard, we would always vote yes (as I now read grand juries from around the country routinely do). That annoyed me for a while. But then I came to the conclusion, represented in Bamspeedy's quote, that the grand jury was doing its job, not through its judgments, but just through its existing at all. Yeah, prosecutors only bother to bring the cases that they know are going to meet that standard. I concluded that it was a valuable service, not in judging the individual cases, but in generally keeping law enforcement from going after people on insufficient evidence, trumped-up charges, etc.

So I've not been able to imagine how the Ferguson grand jury won't indict. It may well be that the prosecutor would love to get his police officer buddy off the hook. And I don't sell lawyers short in being able to sway juries by how they frame the evidence. And I never had a case remotely like this, so I don't know what law will be read to them regarding any special exemptions for police officers; that could make a difference. But to present evidence at all, which is what the prosecutors do here, is to present evidence that there is evidence (if that makes any sense), and since that's all grand juries are really passing on, again, I don't see how there won't be an indictment.

How do the 1% of cases that the grand jury refuses to indict happen? How did the grand jury refuse to indict the nascar driver who ran over his opponent? (I always thought that case was because the prosecutor didn't want to take the case until I was googling and found out it was the grand jury who decided not to move the case forward).

 

[Kyriakos]

So, has the NG already been deployed, or is this going to happen just as the announcement gets made about whether there will be a trial of that cop or not?

(also, i asked this before but don't recall the answer: just what kind of firepower does the NG have access to?).

 

[bhsup]

Well, if you want to get right down to it, the B-2 bomber.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/131st_Bomb_Wing

The 131st Bomb Wing is a unit of the Missouri Air National Guard, stationed at Whiteman Air Force Base, Knob Noster, Missouri. If activated to federal service, the wing is gained by the United States Air Force Global Strike Command. It is an associate unit of the active-duty 509th Bomb Wing, which falls under the Eighth Air Force.

The 131st Bomb Wing is the only Air National Guard wing to fly the B-2 Spirit, as well as the only nuclear-capable Air National Guard bomb wing.

Now before you go on about how that's the AIR guard, both the army national guard and the air national guard make up the Missouri National Guard.

Here is a list of the units of the Missouri National Guard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_National_Guard#Units_and_Formations

 

[Kyriakos]

So they have anything up to /and including/ nuclear bombing ability?

Cool..

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Going to court and defending yourself is a pain in the ass. Without the grand jury system the prosecutor and cops could use the process itself as punishment (imagine your life, now imagine your life with a trial every month where even though there is hardly any case against you you still have to be there to defend yourself). That's why no defense is presented. Under normal circumstances if you are brought to the attention of a grand jury you don't have to defend yourself and if they choose not to indict you there is no impact on you at all.

 

[Paul in Saudi]

I wonder if the authorities are waiting for a nice blizzard to release the non-indictment.

 

[Commodore]

Because the guy is a cop, and law enforcement protect their own. Considering all the other occasions in which a police officer shot a black man and everything was swept under the rug, it is only because of the protesting and the fact that this became national news that this is going to trial at all.

You can see it in the initial Ferguson PD handling of the situation. The officer's name was not released and he was put on a temporary suspension. Then [feces] hit the fan and suddenly the name went public and THEN it went to trial after the Ferguson PD repeatedly tried to throw shade on everybody EXCEPT Wilson.

Better hope they throw the book at the guy

NSFW: Truth

Spoiler :

Link to video.

Are you serious right now? Initially I was on the side of the protestors, but now this particular case looks like the cop did the right thing. All the evidence shows Michael Brown was actively attacking the officer and trying to take his firearm from him. Brown was also physically stronger than the officer and showed intent to kill the officer. Witnesses could even be heard in videos recorded on smartphones stating Brown was attacking the officer. Incidentally, those same witnesses then claimed the officer executed Brown in cold blood once the media arrived on the scene.

But those protesting refuse to accept any of the evidence in favor of the officer and I really think the grand jury is going to come back with a decision to not take this to trial. That is why the governor is issuing a state of emergency ahead of the decision. He knows the protestors won't listen to the facts or listen to reason and will riot when it is announced that there is not enough evidence to take this case to trial.

 

[Saigon]

I wonder if the authorities are waiting for a nice blizzard to release the non-indictment.

To be fair that's not a bad strategy from a public safety point of view. Look at how "#OcCuPyWaLlStReEt" died once winter hit.

 

[Paul in Saudi]

Well, it would be clever, and a bit luck. Saint Louis County needs a bit of luck.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Are you serious right now? Initially I was on the side of the protestors, but now this particular case looks like the cop did the right thing. All the evidence shows Michael Brown was actively attacking the officer and trying to take his firearm from him. Brown was also physically stronger than the officer and showed intent to kill the officer. Witnesses could even be heard in videos recorded on smartphones stating Brown was attacking the officer. Incidentally, those same witnesses then claimed the officer executed Brown in cold blood once the media arrived on the scene.

But those protesting refuse to accept any of the evidence in favor of the officer and I really think the grand jury is going to come back with a decision to not take this to trial. That is why the governor is issuing a state of emergency ahead of the decision. He knows the protestors won't listen to the facts or listen to reason and will riot when it is announced that there is not enough evidence to take this case to trial.

Whenever I'm trying to kill someone I always make a point of running twenty feet away somewhere in the middle of the process, just to show the continuing seriousness of my intent.

Oh, wait, that would show that I've given up on the idea, wouldn't it?

 

[Kaitzilla]

I wonder if the authorities are waiting for a nice blizzard to release the non-indictment.

Or maybe 10 solid days of freezing weather.

Well, if you want to get right down to it, the B-2 bomber.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/131st_Bomb_Wing



Now before you go on about how that's the AIR guard, both the army national guard and the air national guard make up the Missouri National Guard.

Here is a list of the units of the Missouri National Guard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_National_Guard#Units_and_Formations

That's nuts.
Had no idea the National Guard had nukes.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

That's nuts.
Had no idea the National Guard had nukes.

Well, they don't. If that unit is activated they go to SAC, not the Governor of Missouri, but it is entertaining!

Then again, there is probably nothing really wrong with Missouri that couldn't be cured by a good nuclear weapon or three...

 

[bhsup]

Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest that Gov. Nixon has a big red easy button in the Governor's Mansion. Apologies if that was how that came across. Rest assured control of nuclear forces will never be given to our Governor with the exception of a few top secret situations related to Kansas that I am not at liberty to go into.

 

[MobBoss]

This is literally the 1st time I've heard a grand jury not indict someone. Congratulations for finding one case. When I had to serve on a GJ this summer we had over 50ish cases (almost all petty drug crimes but that's normal) I was one of two people who voted no. At all. That's normal from all other people I know as well. IIRC the rate is 99% so this shouldn't be taking this long. There's no such thing as a defense in a grand jury. Thanks for not answering the question BTW.

Finding one barely relevant exception is a MobBoss specialty. Not answering the question is another.

Actually, its not 'barely relevant' it simply proves his assertion wrong.

Secondly, the question is not one I can answer (nor can anyone else here) - I'm not on the Grand Jury involved in this case. Although were I to speculate why it's taking so long, there are a lot of factors involved in this case - specifically why some eye witness accounts are so opposite what the forensics of the case show. Not to mention the potential ramifications if the actual facts of the case affirm the police officers account of how things occurred.

But then again, any child could ascertain that part of it if the really thought about it.

 

[JollyRoger]

Given the mismatch between the forensics and eyewitness accounts in this case Mobby, are you comfortable sending people to death row based only on eyewitness testimony?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Actually, its not 'barely relevant' it simply proves his assertion wrong.

Secondly, the question is not one I can answer (nor can anyone else here) - I'm not on the Grand Jury involved in this case. Although were I to speculate why it's taking so long, there are a lot of factors involved in this case - specifically why some eye witness accounts are so opposite what the forensics of the case show. Not to mention the potential ramifications if the actual facts of the case affirm the police officers account of how things occurred.

But then again, any child could ascertain that part of it if the really thought about it.

I would guess even children wouldn't find that worth a lot of thought.

 

[MobBoss]

Given the mismatch between the forensics and eyewitness accounts in this case Mobby, are you comfortable sending people to death row based only on eyewitness testimony?

I seem to recall you were pretty convinced Zimmerman would be convicted until the forensics came out.

Are you walking the same path in this case?

I would guess even children wouldn't find that worth a lot of thought.

Children are smarter than you think and certainly more aware of current events than you realize. I don't have to guess, I've had a few kids.

 

[dutchfire]

Dutch news is reporting that gun and bullet sales are up enormously in Ferguson and environment. That is surely going to end well.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Children are smarter than you think and certainly more aware of current events than you realize. I don't have to guess, I've had a few kids.

What gave you the idea that I don't think kids are smart? I said kids would probably not give much thought to something you said, not that they weren't smart.

 

[JollyRoger]

I seem to recall you were pretty convinced Zimmerman would be convicted until the forensics came out.

Are you walking the same path in this case?

I was never convinced Zimmerman would be convicted because the police treated the crime scene like the dead guy was the criminal rather than being more proactive about treating it as if the shooter could have been the criminal.

The prosecution still had a shot at a win, using items put into evidence by the defense, but they did not pursue the winning theory.

As for this one, you have witnesses saying one thing and leaks implying the forensics ondicate otherwise. Lots of people in Texas being freed because the forensics were only looked at on the prodding by crazy liberals who think that relying only on eyewitness testimony is faulty. I am assuming you are moving into the crazy liberal camp on this one. If so, we will provide you the waterboarding kit for the FEMA Camp you will be running.