Ferguson

[Timsup2nothin]

Living in Western Sydney, I've had my share of completely unnecessary run-ins with the police. But ffs, get off your high horse. Wait until you hear the evidence before forming your opinion.

My generalization was not based on this case. I'd have said exactly the same thing before I ever heard of Ferguson Missouri.

 

[James Stuart]

My generalization was not based on this case. I'd have said exactly the same thing before I ever heard of Ferguson Missouri.

So you would characterise this as most likely being police brutality regardless of the publicly-known facts of the case?

 

[Kyriakos]

Being stopped by the police can be a bad experience regardless of other factors. In my last trip to the northern part of the city so as to present the final lecture of the second circle of the program, i was lost for a while due to searching for another library i was told to go so as to meet in a prelude for the program moving there in the next year.
So i happened to look around for 40 seconds or something, lost, and a police vehicle was near.

They went into the trouble to follow me and 2 min later they stopped me for a search... It went ok, obviously, they asked if i have anything illegal, i said that i do not. They asked then if i was ever arrested, to which i replied that of course i never was (decided to not make any jokes there, because Police etc).

Anyway, as noted, it is unpleasant, but whatever. Btw they were 5 policemen, and had semi-automatic weapons. Cool. I suppose i would be feeling less secure if i did not look like a byzantine emperor. They sort of backed down after 1 min when they searched my handbag and found there my dangerous book on 19th century math, and two copies of my library seminar 1 min later it was all over.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So you would characterise this as most likely being police brutality regardless of the publicly-known facts of the case?

I would characterize this as most likely a cop demanding obsequious behavior (because I have noted that that is typical) and not getting a satisfactory response. That upped the intensity of the demand to outright intimidation (also standard), and it got out of hand (which is going to happen sometimes).

I wouldn't call that 'brutality', it's just that people who make their living through intimidation will occasionally have to follow through or it just stops working.

 

[James Stuart]

I would characterize this as most likely a cop demanding obsequious behavior (because I have noted that that is typical) and not getting a satisfactory response. That upped the intensity of the demand to outright intimidation (also standard), and it got out of hand (which is going to happen sometimes).

I wouldn't call that 'brutality', it's just that people who make their living through intimidation will occasionally have to follow through or it just stops working.

I think you're jumping to a pretty big conclusion based on the (lack of) information currently available. I've met plenty of police that would leave the world a better place by their absence, and far fewer police that were actually decent human beings (how much of that is the behaviour of police in general over here, and how much is where I live, I don't know) but I'm still not going to immediately assume the worst about them.

As Commodore stated earlier, the original story looked very damning for the police in question, but subsequent evidence seems to be more favourable to the police's story. This seems a lot more like a coin toss than a Rodney King situation now.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I think you're jumping to a pretty big conclusion based on the (lack of) information currently available. I've met plenty of police that would leave the world a better place by their absence, and far fewer police that were actually decent human beings (how much of that is the behaviour of police in general over here, and how much is where I live, I don't know) but I'm still not going to immediately assume the worst about them.

As Commodore stated earlier, the original story looked very damning for the police in question, but subsequent evidence seems to be more favourable to the police's story. This seems a lot more like a coin toss than a Rodney King situation now.

The coin toss situation comes from this question:

Do you think young black men are more likely to make unprovoked attacks on police than police officers are to provoke citizens, counting on their gun and badge to provide enough intimidation to keep anything serious from developing?

Having met numerous police officers and numerous young black men I have absolutely no doubt what the more likely event is.

 

[MobBoss]

Having met numerous police officers and numerous young black men I have absolutely no doubt what the more likely event is.

Me too.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Me too.

For those who don't get the joke, this is MobBoss claiming that unprovoked attacks on police officers happen all the time. Black kids walking down the street are liable to just yank them right out of their squad cars at any moment.

Bub, you have a unique view.

 

[MobBoss]

For those who don't get the joke, this is MobBoss claiming that unprovoked attacks on police officers happen all the time. Black kids walking down the street are liable to just yank them right out of their squad cars at any moment.

Bub, you have a unique view.

I live in a community where a black man murdered 4 of our police officers as they were sitting down for breakfast and coffee not two miles from where I live.

So yeah, I guess my view is just as unique as yours is...just the polar opposite.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I live in a community where a black man murdered 4 of our police officers as they were sitting down for breakfast and coffee not two miles from where I live.

So yeah, I guess my view is just as unique as yours is...just the polar opposite.

One incident.

So how many people can't match that with two kowtow demanding cops? Or ten?

Once again, since as usual you were in such a hurry to disagree you apparently didn't understand what you were disagreeing with...

Occurrence rate of unprovoked attacks on police officers by young black men.
Occurrence rate of police officers provoking citizens while counting on their gun and badge to keep anything serious from happening.
Which of these occurrence rates is greater?

Note that I did not suggest the first one is zero.

 

[JollyRoger]

I think you're jumping to a pretty big conclusion based on the (lack of) information currently available. I've met plenty of police that would leave the world a better place by their absence, and far fewer police that were actually decent human beings (how much of that is the behaviour of police in general over here, and how much is where I live, I don't know) but I'm still not going to immediately assume the worst about them.

As Commodore stated earlier, the original story looked very damning for the police in question, but subsequent evidence seems to be more favourable to the police's story. This seems a lot more like a coin toss than a Rodney King situation now.

What about the fact that the body was located 148 feet from the vehicle?

 

[Senethro]

I live in a community where a black man murdered 4 of our police officers as they were sitting down for breakfast and coffee not two miles from where I live.

So yeah, I guess my view is just as unique as yours is...just the polar opposite.

Yo, cops are a obviously heterogenous group. Stereotypes of black people in America often make them out not to be. So you making implications about black people from one incident is kind of irrational and stupid even if you think you're making some kind of point.

If you're going to make racist statements can you make them overtly instead of this implication hiding behind some barely plausible deniability? Thanks.

 

[Labtec600]

One incident.

So how many people can't match that with two kowtow demanding cops? Or ten?

Once again, since as usual you were in such a hurry to disagree you apparently didn't understand what you were disagreeing with...

Occurrence rate of unprovoked attacks on police officers by young black men.
Occurrence rate of police officers provoking citizens while counting on their gun and badge to keep anything serious from happening.
Which of these occurrence rates is greater?

Note that I did not suggest the first one is zero.

I am curious, can you provide the statistics?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I am curious, can you provide the statistics?

Nope. I'm suggesting everyone consider their own experience. MobBoss has cited one example of an unprovoked attack on officers. No doubt there have been a few others. As long as there are less than a half dozen or so I can come up with more cops trying to pick a fight just from my personal experience.

How about you? Seen a lot of cops just driving along and getting hauled out of their cars out of the blue? Getting jumped walking down the street? Taking sniper fire?

Face it, unprovoked attacks on cops are scarce as hen's teeth, and most people know that cops trying to play intimidation games is an everyday occurrence.

 

[Labtec600]

Nope. I'm suggesting everyone consider their own experience. MobBoss has cited one example of an unprovoked attack on officers. No doubt there have been a few others. As long as there are less than a half dozen or so I can come up with more cops trying to pick a fight just from my personal experience.

How about you? Seen a lot of cops just driving along and getting hauled out of their cars out of the blue? Getting jumped walking down the street? Taking sniper fire?

Face it, unprovoked attacks on cops are scarce as hen's teeth, and most people know that cops trying to play intimidation games is an everyday occurrence.

In person? I haven't seen either.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

In person? I haven't seen either.

I've never seen a cop get attacked, but I've read about it. It is apparently scarce enough that when it happens it makes news though. As to cops trying to be intimidating, which from ordinary people would be considered provoking a fight, half a dozen. People who don't live in areas targeted with 'make our presence felt' directives would no doubt see it less.

 

[James Stuart]

What about the fact that the body was located 148 feet from the vehicle?

I've heard contradictory stories about that. I haven't kept up with this news enough to know which version was accurate.

 

[Berzerker]

Cops have far more effective weapons than guns. They almost always have numbers. They invariably have the fact that their testimony outweighs anyone elses, so the opponent is by definition the criminal no matter what the outcome. The number of reasons they (rightly) believe that they can start a fight without any concern for consequences is nearly endless. That thinking does get people killed, but very seldom the cops.

their testimony dont exist if they're dead, thats the most relevant consequence to starting a fight with a holstered gun

The initial police spin was that Brown's body ended up about 35 feet from the vehicle. They were only off by about 113 feet.

wow, 50 yds is a long way to run if he was charging the cop... and I just dont hear a long gap in the audio of the gunshots between the first volley that convinced Brown to stop and the volley that killed him...course the cop was probably closer to Brown than the SUV, so maybe 40 yds - still too far

 

[Timsup2nothin]

their testimony dont exist if they're dead, thats the most relevant consequence to starting a fight with a holstered gun

Most cops that have gotten snotty with me have put their hand conspicuously on their gun. One actually pulled it out. I'm a very confident guy, but I have little doubt about who would have survived those encounters to give testimony had they turned ugly.

 

[MobBoss]

One incident.

So how many people can't match that with two kowtow demanding cops? Or ten?

Once again, since as usual you were in such a hurry to disagree you apparently didn't understand what you were disagreeing with...

Occurrence rate of unprovoked attacks on police officers by young black men.
Occurrence rate of police officers provoking citizens while counting on their gun and badge to keep anything serious from happening.
Which of these occurrence rates is greater?

Note that I did not suggest the first one is zero.

My point, the one that you apparently didn't grasp, was that anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.