Ferguson

[Farm Boy]

No, that's legitimate. I updated my last post with more info.

Ok, that is what I was wondering about. Thank you!

 

[civvver]

The lesson is:

When the police sacrifice all relatedness with the public in which they have to operate and make them "the enemy" the enemy they created will sometimes shoot back.

This lesson should be taken to heart by all the "good cops" who don't actively participate in the behaviors that create the conditions. If they don't take action and choose to be part of the 'blue wall of unity' they are just as likely to take the consequences as anyone else. Through a scope their uniform looks just like the rest.

Interesting that the police chief finally resigned. Fair to assume he will be getting a substantial pension and preferential treatment from law enforcement for the rest of his life. Progress.

Are you condoning the shooting of police officers? Because you basically just said it's the police officer's own faults that those two officers got shot, not the worthless scumbags who pulled the trigger. On top of that it's the fault of all police officer's, even those not involved in the local department committing the injustice. Those cops pulled in from other areas probably have nothing to do with any of this.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Are you condoning the shooting of police officers? Because you basically just said it's the police officer's own faults that those two officers got shot, not the worthless scumbags who pulled the trigger. On top of that it's the fault of all police officer's, even those not involved in the local department committing the injustice. Those cops pulled in from other areas probably have nothing to do with any of this.

Have you read the reports? The Ferguson PD had the bad luck of this happening in their town, but they are totally representative of every police force in the surrounding area (frankly they are representative of pretty much every police force in America, in my opinion). The police created enmity in the community through treating the community as the enemy. This is what happens when you make enemies. Sometimes they shoot back.

Whether I 'condone' it or not is a non issue.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Ferguson is back in the news?

First, Attorney General Eric Horder threated last week to dismantle the Ferguson Police Department.
http://time.com/3736247/eric-holder-ferguson-police-dismantle/

Attorney General Eric Holder said Friday that he’s “prepared” to dismantle the Ferguson, Mo., police department after a Wednesday Department of Justice report revealed numerous instances of racial discrimination and constitutional violations within the force.

“We are prepared to use all the powers that we have, all the power that we have, to ensure that the situation changes there,” Holder said. “That means everything from working with them to coming up with an entirely new structure … If [dismantling is] what’s necessary, we’re prepared to do that.”

Holder called Ferguson an “anomoly” but hopes other departments around the country are paying close attention to the contents of the Wednesday report, which stated that the Ferguson police valued “revenue rather than public safety needs.”

“The notion that you would use a law enforcement agency or law enforcement generally to generate revenue, and then the callous way in which that was done and the impact that it had on the lives of the ordinary citizens of that municipality, was just appalling,” Holder told reporters at Andrews Air Force Base. “And that is not something that we’re going to tolerate.”

He can do that?
I thought only the city of Ferguson had that power.

Investor's Business Daily is furious.
http://news.investors.com/ibd-edito...rames-ferguson-pd-with-bogus-stats.htm?p=full

...
The "emails" in question were not actually written by PD officials. They were the same chain emails that circulate the Internet anonymously, the equivalent of junk mail. You could not be a racist at all and find such offensive spam in your inbox.

Interestingly, Justice's 102-page report spends just two pages on the emails, none of which rises to a smoking-gun memo ordering cops to single out blacks, which is the report's insinuation. Instead, the report focuses on unintentional discrimination based on "disparate impact" statistics.

"These disparities are unexplainable on grounds other than race and evidence that racial bias has shaped law enforcement conduct," the report asserts. That's a huge lie. They are in fact easily explainable. Holder's race mongers purposely neglected to isolate variables that explain the disparities.

And a footnote on page 77 kills Holder's whole case of "disparate impact" racism against the Ferguson PD. It remarks that disparities are worse throughout the state of Missouri, raising "considerable concerns about policing outside of Ferguson as well."

As former federal civil-rights lawyer Hans Bader told us: "Disparate impact is ubiquitous. Virtually everything in the larger society has a disparate impact in the prima facie sense. What police department wouldn't be in violation of it?"

There are lies, damned lies, and then there are Eric Holder's statistics.
...

Two Ferguson police officers had to resign last week.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_5cca0f5f-7a1b-5b67-ab11-77541c9ad4f4.html

FERGUSON • Two veteran police commanders have resigned and a city court clerk has been fired over racist emails cited this week in a Justice Department report critical of the city of Ferguson's law enforcement.

Capt. Rick Henke and Sgt. William Mudd resigned Thursday, sources confirmed Friday. Also Friday, city spokesman Jeff Small said Court Clerk Mary Ann Twitty was fired Wednesday.

And now 2 officers have been shot and the police chief has resigned!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/12/us-usa-missouri-shooting-protest-idUSKBN0M80CJ20150312

Reuters) - The shooting of two police officers in Ferguson, Missouri, during a protest rally sparked an intense manhunt for suspects on Thursday and ratcheted up tensions in a city at the center of a national debate over race and policing.

U.S. President Barack Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder condemned the attack on the officers, who were treated at a local hospital and released, as a law enforcement team in tactical gear swarmed a home in the St. Louis suburb. Television images showed officers on the roof breaking into the attic with heavy tools.

Shawn McGuire, a St. Louis County police spokesman, said an undisclosed number of people were taken from the house but there have been no arrests so far. He would not confirm media reports that two men and a woman were led away.

Long-simmering tensions between African-Americans and Ferguson's mostly white police force came to a boil in August when a white policeman killed an unarmed black teenager. The shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown led to a coast-to-coast wave of demonstrations last year.

The rally at Ferguson police headquarters on Wednesday evening was called hours after the resignation of its long-criticized police chief, Tom Jackson, but activists demanded more changes. Jackson quit in the wake of a scathing U.S. Justice Department report that found his force was rife with racial bias.

Around midnight, gunfire rang out, leaving a 41-year-old St. Louis County Police officer with a shoulder wound and a 32-year- old officer from nearby Webster Groves Police Department with a bullet lodged near his ear, St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said.

"This is really an ambush, is what it is," Belmar said of the shootings, the worst outbreak of violence in the city since riots that broke out in November after the announcement that a grand jury decided against indicting the officer who killed Brown.

The shootings were "inexcusable and repugnant," Holder said in a statement. The White House sent a Tweet that read: "Violence against police is unacceptable. Our prayers are with the officers in MO. Path to justice is one all of us must travel together."

Belmar told a news conference authorities had possible leads, and said the shooter used a handgun and shell casings had been recovered.

"This is No. 1 priority of St. Louis County police to identify that individual or individuals," said Belmar, who leads the police force in the county that includes Ferguson. Officers did not return fire but may in future, he said.

"I have said all along that we cannot sustain this forever without problems," he said, referring to festering tensions in the city since Brown's death.

Good Lord!

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Ferguson is back in the news?

First, Attorney General Eric Horder threated last week to dismantle the Ferguson Police Department.
He can do that?
I thought only the city of Ferguson had that power.

Yes, he does. The result of the investigation leaves the FPD in a position to comply or be subject to federal management. That management could include replacing every person in the department, which could be summarized as 'dismantling'.

The city of Ferguson gave up their right to manage their police by failing to exercise responsible oversight.

 

[civvver]

Have you read the reports? The Ferguson PD had the bad luck of this happening in their town, but they are totally representative of every police force in the surrounding area (frankly they are representative of pretty much every police force in America, in my opinion). The police created enmity in the community through treating the community as the enemy. This is what happens when you make enemies. Sometimes they shoot back.

Whether I 'condone' it or not is a non issue.

I don't see the distinction. By saying the police brought it upon themselves you are implicitly siding with the shooters by providing them with justification. And yes, it is exactly the issue because victim mentality is what causes a lot of this garbage in the first place. A democratic society depends on individual responsibility at its core to function.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I don't see the distinction. By saying the police brought it upon themselves you are implicitly siding with the shooters by providing them with justification. And yes, it is exactly the issue because victim mentality is what causes a lot of this garbage in the first place. A democratic society depends on individual responsibility at its core to function.

Indeed it does. You just seem to be really offended by the mechanism of accountability in this particular instance, and are apparently demanding that I should be offended as well.

The shooters don't need me or you to provide them with justification. They apparently feel quite justified without us. Which is why I said that whether I condone it or not is a non-issue.

 

[jackelgull]

I don't see the distinction. By saying the police brought it upon themselves you are implicitly siding with the shooters by providing them with justification. And yes, it is exactly the issue because victim mentality is what causes a lot of this garbage in the first place. A democratic society depends on individual responsibility at its core to function.

And did the cops take individual responsibility for their actions until the government forced them to?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

And did the cops take individual responsibility for their actions until the government forced them to?

The question with cops is usually more about their inactions.

Ferguson provides great examples. In the now infamous mistaken identity arrest ends in being beaten bloody and charged with bleeding on the cops uniforms case, we see that four FPD officers could beat a handcuffed guy right in the police station with no concern that any of their 'brother officers' might report them, leak the story to media, or otherwise fail to back their play.

We see that in the face of citizen outrage that has already led to violence, many FPD officers could take it into their heads to actively incite the populace with 'I am officer Wilson' tags on their uniforms, and that their brother officers apparently would not say anything like 'dude, if you antagonize them enough they might shoot me instead of you, so knock it off'.

The usual defenses of 'there are a few bad apples in every barrel' fail miserably when you consider the pride cops take in blue unity and their absolute refusal to take any action to police themselves.

 

[Commodore]

Obviously the actions of one individual shouldn't implicate an entire community.

They should when there were obviously witnesses to the shooting since someone was able to record the incident on their phone and none of them have come forward to help the police solve the crime. I don't care how much you hate your police department, if an actual crime is committed, you help them solve the crime if you are able. The fact that the community isn't helping the police implies they approve of the shootings and care much more about revenge than actual justice.

 

[Farm Boy]

It could also mean they're more afraid of retribution than they have faith in the protection of the law.

 

[Commodore]

It could also mean they're more afraid of retribution than they have faith in the protection of the law.

True. Either way though, it is a failure of the collective character of the community.

 

[Farm Boy]

And possibly in the protection of law.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

They should when there were obviously witnesses to the shooting since someone was able to record the incident on their phone and none of them have come forward to help the police solve the crime. I don't care how much you hate your police department, if an actual crime is committed, you help them solve the crime if you are able. The fact that the community isn't helping the police implies they approve of the shootings and care much more about revenge than actual justice.

When you devote years to making enemies sometimes they shoot back...and they aren't likely to be inclined towards helpfulness.

 

[Commodore]

When you devote years to making enemies sometimes they shoot back...and they aren't likely to be inclined towards helpfulness.

True, but allowing such actions will only further the air of lawlessness in the community and prevents any kind of healing or reconciliation from ever having a chance to happen. Events like this shooting will only reinforce the prejudices of the Ferguson PD and disincline them to make any significant change so in a few years they (the PD and the community as a whole) will be right back where they were in August of last year.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

True, but allowing such actions will only further the air of lawlessness in the community and prevents any kind of healing or reconciliation from ever having a chance to happen. Events like this shooting will only reinforce the prejudices of the Ferguson PD and disincline them to make any significant change so in a few years they (the PD and the community as a whole) will be right back where they were in August of last year.

The FPD no longer has choice in the matter of making changes. The riots took care of that.

 

[Flying Pig]

True, but allowing such actions will only further the air of lawlessness in the community and prevents any kind of healing or reconciliation from ever having a chance to happen. Events like this shooting will only reinforce the prejudices of the Ferguson PD and disincline them to make any significant change so in a few years they (the PD and the community as a whole) will be right back where they were in August of last year.

Public servants don't really get that excuse - it's your job, when you're paid to work in a public office, to consciously ensure that you set your biases and prejudices aside. It's also the job of 'the police' to ensure that the right changes happen, regardless of what any number of officers think.

 

[Commodore]

Public servants don't really get that excuse - it's your job, when you're paid to work in a public office, to consciously ensure that you set your biases and prejudices aside. It's also the job of 'the police' to ensure that the right changes happen, regardless of what any number of officers think.

Of course. I've even made that exact same argument in the past on this forum, although I think it was in a different thread. But just because that's the way it should be, doesn't mean that's the way it will actually play out. After all, public servants are still human, and humans have a tendency to let their prejudices influence their actions, whether consciously or subconsciously.

 

[Kaitzilla]

The latest police outrage.


Link to video.

Police Officer Melendez, the one punching the guy on the ground and accused of planting drugs, can be seen in the court document @3:24

Look in the top left.
It says he is also known as Robocop.

The guy apparently has a history of excessive force problems.
http://www.davidileelaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/02062003melendezfreep.pdf

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Hey, police have to protect themselves. When you wrestle someone down and lay on them they can get mad. So it's important to beat the snot out of them, choke them out, taze them a few times, and handcuff them before they get a chance to retaliate...because you just never know.