Flag Burning!

[Ziggy Stardust]

Can anyone explain to me the difference between what the protesters say in the article what that flag-burning was there to represent and the statement like "wanting to take their country back, because they don't like what it has become" I heard at tea-party protests and on this very forum by self-proclaimed patriots?

 

[kochman]

Can anyone explain to me the difference between what the protesters say in the article what that flag-burning was there to represent and the statement like "wanting to take their country back, because they don't like what it has become" I heard at tea-party protests and on this very forum by self-proclaimed patriots?

The difference, to me, is as a vet.
There are a lot of people who fought and died under that flag.

The US Flag isn't just a coat of arms... it's a symbol of fighting for freedom and liberty (obviously it has been abused)... The Spirit of 1776

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I was talking about the statement.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I didn't say being respectful to the flag is being "like sheep".

You insinuated that adhering to the longstanding flag etiquette followed by every American who is actually respectful of the flag, and which is carefully adhered to by all our military forces and other governmental representatives, was being "like sheep".

http://www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html

The flag should never be dipped to any person or thing. It is flown upside down only as a distress signal.

The flag should not be used as a drapery, or for covering a speakers desk, draping a platform, or for any decoration in general. Bunting of blue, white and red stripes is available for these purposes. The blue stripe of the bunting should be on the top.

The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard

The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, fireman, policeman and members of patriotic organizations.

The flag should never have placed on it, or attached to it, any mark, insignia, letter, word, number, figure, or drawing of any kind.

The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.

The difference, to me, is as a vet.
There are a lot of people who fought and died under that flag.

The US Flag isn't just a coat of arms... it's a symbol of fighting for freedom and liberty (obviously it has been abused)... The Spirit of 1776

It is certainly a symbol for fighting, but it has rarely been for "freedom and liberty". It certainly wasn't in any recent wars.

That is also probably the number one reason why it is burned so frequently by non-Americans. They don't hate our "freedom and liberty". They hate our incessant warmongering, imperialism, and hegemony.

 

[kochman]

You can continue to willfully misunderstand me, I can't change that.

 

[Flying Pig]

Can anyone explain to me the difference between what the protesters say in the article what that flag-burning was there to represent and the statement like "wanting to take their country back, because they don't like what it has become" I heard at tea-party protests and on this very forum by self-proclaimed patriots?

It's the (American?) tendancy not to seperate the country and the government to the same extent that we do - they're burning it in its capacity as a symbol of 'the establishment'. Many people find the idea that you can be patriotic while being fiercely opposed to your country's laws and actions abroad very strange.

 

[Angst]

If you didn't understand, feel free to PM me.

Do you expect to be taken seriously if you want to go through a PM exchange in regards to understanding of an argument? On a discussion forum? Where your arguments are meant to be publicly understood?

 

[kochman]

I don't think what I wrote was confusing.
I think I'm being trolled... not going to engage it.

 

[Angst]

I'm actually not a troll, I hate the kind. I'm sorry if I appeared like it.

When prompted for explanation or being misunderstood, don't write it off as a reason for a PM exchange on a discussion forum. Rather, it's a good idea to explain yourself.

 

[jtb1127]

It's the (American?) tendancy not to seperate the country and the government to the same extent that we do - they're burning it in its capacity as a symbol of 'the establishment'. Many people find the idea that you can be patriotic while being fiercely opposed to your country's laws and actions abroad very strange.

I'd expect that it's worse in the US than in other countries because the military is oh so important and children say the pledge of allegiance in the morning.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I can't imagine the nationalism possibly being worse in any modern country with a democratically elected government.

 

[Arwon]

Turkey?

 

[Mr. Dictator]

And like I said, pissing someone off just to piss them off doesnt lead to anything worthwhile. It just leads to violence, eventually. The 'push me, shove you' attitude doesnt accomplish anything really, and isnt a 'pro' at all...its just immature attention whoring.

Hmm...well, I disagree.

 

[holy king]

Turkey?

japan?

 

[Lone Wolf]

Russia
(Well, the level of nationalism is about equal, really. But I couldn't resist).

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It's the (American?) tendancy not to seperate the country and the government to the same extent that we do - they're burning it in its capacity as a symbol of 'the establishment'. Many people find the idea that you can be patriotic while being fiercely opposed to your country's laws and actions abroad very strange.

Yeah, that's my take on it as well.

You can't look at this action and determine whether it's patriotic or not without looking at the intent of that action.

 

[cardgame]

Hmm...well, I disagree.

I see what you're doing here... mmmyes.

 

[Yeekim]

It's a little sad this is even considered an issue.

It's a coloured rag representing a patch of special dirt.

I wouldn't shrug if the flag under question was burned privately, to keep warm, or something. In that case, it would be treated in its capacity as a piece of flammable material. Granted, it would be somewhat disrespectful, but so what? The flag under question, however, was burned publicly and demonstratively, to make a point.

National flags are generally understood to be symbols of the nation - so what is the point one can make by demonstratively burning it? I understand intentional desecration of a flag as being a message of hatred towards the nation it represents - sort of ultimate affront to be made.

 

[Traitorfish]

National flags are generally understood to be symbols of the nation[.]

That's what he meant by "representing a patch of special dirt", yes.

 

[warpus]

Who cares what the flag represents or what message you're sending by burning it?

If you live in a free country, you should be able to burn whatever the hell you want (with environmental and other restrictions of course)