For Liberty(and pwnage) Ron Paul 2012 Part II

[Miles Teg]

Or indeed the race war between blacks and whites!

That happened.

...Right?

Right?

Sorry, can't hear you, still tripping over Paul's brilliantly foresightastic thought interest rates were going to skyrocket.

And yet for some reason people don't take Ron Paul seriously.

 

[Gen.Mannerheim]

Sorry, can't hear you, still tripping over Paul's brilliantly foresightastic thought interest rates were going to skyrocket.

And yet for some reason people don't take Ron Paul seriously.

How can you not take a man who actually thinks that bringing the gold standard back is the best policy. Or that ending the Federal Reserve will make the dollar stronger...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

In hindsight, I predicted what would happen as well.

 

[Cutlass]

What about the predictions of ruinous inflation or a lack of confidence causing the going rate on bonds to increase drastically? Neither of those predictions has come true.

Didn't we just have another thread where the CRA came up?

Yes. It's one of those cyclical things. Some people have to blame the government when something goes wrong. So blame CRA, then blame the Fed, then blame the repeal of Glass-Stegal. Rinse and repeat. Never blame the people who actually took the actions that caused the problem.




edit: Just recalled, Ron Paul on NPR yesterday was talking about auditing the Fed and was demanding an accounting of the $16trillion that the Fed spent on the financial crisis. There's a guy who knows what he's talking about.

 

[peter grimes]

Have any of the Ron Paul supporters here heard about the recent revelations that Paul certainly knew of and signed off on the racist writings in his Newsletters?

Source:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/01/no-one-left-to-lie-to/252123/

But people close to Paul's operations said he was deeply involved in the company that produced the newsletters, Ron Paul & Associates, and closely monitored its operations, signing off on articles and speaking to staff members virtually every day.

"It was his newsletter, and it was under his name, so he always got to see the final product. . . . He would proof it,'' said Renae Hathway, a former secretary in Paul's company and a supporter of the Texas congressman.

[snip]

Crane [president of Cato Institute] said Paul reported getting his best response when he used a mailing list from the now-defunct newspaper Spotlight, which was widely considered anti-Semitic and racist.

[snip]

Paul allowed the controversial material in his newsletter as a way to make money. Dondero Rittberg said he witnessed Paul proofing, editing and signing off on his newsletters in the mid-1990s.

"The real big money came from some of that racially tinged stuff, but he also had to keep his libertarian supporters, and they weren't at all comfortable with that,'' he said.

This article makes clear that many people claimed that Paul himself didn't voice racists views, but any defense of him must acknowledge that he intentionally included that garbage in an effort to increase profits.

Is that really a quality you'd like to have in the next president?

 

[kochman]

Furthermore, has Paul ever publicly stated to the skinhead groups, etc that support him that he doesn't want their support?
I think that's pretty important.

 

[Kozmos]

Screw RP and racism...what I want is Newt Gingriches moon base babies.

 

[Core Imposter]

I think the surface of the moon would be a good place for a libetarian experiment and actually I don't know if there is a reason that can't commence immediately.

The Grinch is exposed however as a big government guy. He wants to expand Federal power to the moon. Establish a state. That in no way can be considered conservative.

 

[Cryptic_Snow]

Have any of the Ron Paul supporters here heard about the recent revelations that Paul certainly knew of and signed off on the racist writings in his Newsletters?

Source:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/01/no-one-left-to-lie-to/252123/



This article makes clear that many people claimed that Paul himself didn't voice racists views, but any defense of him must acknowledge that he intentionally included that garbage in an effort to increase profits.

Is that really a quality you'd like to have in the next president?

Paul already addressed this in a CNN interview today. Furthermore, look what NAACP President had to say concerning Ron Paul.

Slate: Two Questions for NAACP President Ben Jealous

Right after the State of the Union ended, I located a guy who'd been seated a few steps away: Benjamin Jealous, president of the NAACP. We chatted very briefly about two of the GOP's nominees, the ones who've argued that they can do more for black America.

Slate: Ron Paul answered a question about his old newsletters by saying he was the most anti-racist candidate: He wanted fair criminal justice reform. Did you buy it?

Jealous: We've found common cause with libertarians across the South, for years. In Texas, Ron Paul's state, we've passed a dozen progressive criminal justice reforms last year, working with the Tea Party. In South Carolina we got one-to-one on crack versus powder, which we couldn't get Congress to do when Democrats controlled it. In Georgia, we just pushed through the biggest review of criminal justice policy in the entire country, again, working with a Tea Party governor and Tea Party supporters. Criminal justice reform is, if you will, the big silent agreement in this country. It's ideas like treatment instead of incarceration appeal from libertarians to liberals alike, to progressives and conservatives alike.

If you divide the Tea Party, it divides into three groups: The libertarians, the fiscal conservatives, and the social conservatives. And when you go them and say rehab is seven times more effective than prison, they pay more attention. The pot-smoking wing pays attention. The Christian conservatives, who are very involved in prison ministry, already know it. So Ron Paul has a point that policies he is promoting, on criminal justice reform, are policies that need to be discussed and would have a positive impact on the black community.

 

[mangxema]

This article makes clear that many people claimed that Paul himself didn't voice racists views, but any defense of him must acknowledge that he intentionally included that garbage in an effort to increase profits.

Is that really a quality you'd like to have in the next president?

Ideally, no, but it sort of depends. Paul is the only candidate giving a contrary opinion on certain issues, some of which (specifically foreign policy and drug policy) are rather important to a number of people. If there were other candidates saying these things, then I would expect that the newsletters would hurt him badly. But there aren't, so they haven't. I mean, if you think sustained wars and debt will have truly catastrophic consequences, focusing on personal qualities instead seems rather silly.

I think the surface of the moon would be a good place for a libetarian experiment...

Well, there's this:

Hell, one of the sections of the book is called 'TANSTAAFL!'.

 

[Miles Teg]

Paul already addressed this in a CNN interview today.

You know, when you said that Paul addressed the issue, I was wondering why I hadn't heard about this obviously newsworthy rebuttal.

Then I found the video and realized that he just issued a bland denial. Anyways, if he really wasn't that involved in the production of his own newsletter, I'm curious as to how and why he was able to leap to the defense of the more racist passages back in the 90s.

I'd normally guess that it was because he wasn't running for president back then. But it's such a huge meme that Ron Paul is a man of impeccable integrity and honor that I just can't bring myself to say it.

 

[Leoreth]

I think the surface of the moon would be a good place for a libetarian experiment and actually I don't know if there is a reason that can't commence immediately.

If you want to propose shooting all libertarians to the moon, I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[useless]

Paul already addressed this in a CNN interview today. Furthermore, look what NAACP President had to say concerning Ron Paul.

Slate: Two Questions for NAACP President Ben Jealous

The Dallas Morning News -- May 22, 1996:

Dr. Paul, who served in Congress in the late 1970s and early 1980s, said Tuesday that he has produced the newsletter since 1985 and distributes it to an estimated 7,000 to 8,000 subscribers. A phone call to the newsletter's toll-free number was answered by his campaign staff.

[...]

Dr. Paul denied suggestions that he was a racist and said he was not evoking stereotypes when he wrote the columns. He said they should be read and quoted in their entirety to avoid misrepresentation.

[...]

"If someone challenges your character and takes the interpretation of the NAACP as proof of a man's character, what kind of a world do you live in?" Dr. Paul asked.

Welp!

 

[Gen.Mannerheim]

IMO, there's a better case to say there Ron Paul is a carpetbagger over him as a racist.

 

[useless]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/291000/20120201/anonymous-ron-paul-neo-nazi-bnp-a3p.htm

Members of the nationalist American Third Position Party (A3P), whose website was defaced by Anonymous, organised Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul's meetings and campaigns, according emails hacked by the collective.

Chairman of the British National Party (BNP) Nick Griffin also took part in meetings with Paul and other representatives of A3P.

"According to these messages, Ron Paul has regularly met with many A3P members, even engaging in conference calls with their board of directors," read a statement from Anonymous.

It also claims that Paul received financial support from other white power groups, such as the online hate forum Stormfront, founded by Don Black, a white supremacist. There is even a photograph of Paul with Black, a former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and a current member of the American Nazi Party. Paul allegedly refused to return donations from Black and Stormfront. Black told The New York Times that Paul's newsletter had inspired him to become a supporter.

...

Kelso also appears to have made his team available to Paul's campaign. In an email dated 2009, he wrote to an Alexander Hamilton: "Imbar is Ron Paul #2 man in Illinois. Owns his own manufacturing company. Young guy like you, Jeff (Imbar) and I have been buddies for years. We met up with Ron Paul in Ames, Iowa in Aug. 2007."

In another email from 2010, Kelso reiterates his commitment to Paul's presidential campaign and claims that some A3P members are part of Paul's team. "A couple of my buddies are among those dozen [email sent]. 'Knucklehead' is my buddy and Sr. Mod named Imbar on WhiteNewsNow [a racist website owned by Kelso]. He's also Ron Paul's #2 man in Illinois, Chicago, where is a manufacturer. His name is Jeff".

Griffin from the British National Party was also involved in these meetings. "We'll be meeting up with Nick Griffin on Wednesday night... a few of us," Kelso wrote to a member of AP3. "I let Nick know about the CPAC going on Thurs. and Fri. at the Marriott Hotel north of the White House," he said. "Ron Paul will be there Fri. afternoon. Want to meet up with him?"

Paul's connections with racist supporters have been highlighted by the media in America. Bill White, a former member of the neo-Nazi group the National Socialist Movement, became disillusioned with Paul after a spokesman for the Republican candidate called white supremacy "a small ideology".

Following the incident, he wrote on a popular white supremacist website: "Both Congressman Paul and his aides regularly meet with members of the Stormfront set, American Renaissance, the Institute for Historic Review, and others at the Tara Thai restaurant in Arlington, Virginia, usually on Wednesdays," he said. "I have attended these dinners, seen Paul and his aides there, and been invited to his offices in Washington to discuss policy."

"Paul is a white nationalist of the Stormfront type who has always kept his racial views and his views about world Judaism quiet because of his political position," he added.

It looks like Ron Paul's past of courting racists and espousing racist views is finally catching up with him, I will continue to keep an eye on this to see how far he unravels.

 

[Arakhor]

He talked with Nick Griffin?? Either Ron Paul has some very objectionable views or he's merely pretending to have some to secure funding. Neither is acceptable in a politician.

 

[useless]

Remember; Nick Griffon is a holocaust denialist, who denies certain aspects of the holocaust, is a known bigot and neo-nazi.

 

[bhsup]

Does that automatically make anyone who talks to him the same? Recall, Jesus talked to Satan.

 

[useless]

Does that automatically make anyone who talks to him the same? Recall, Jesus talked to Satan.

It says something about you if you keep company with people who are neo-nazis and holocaust deniers, not that Paul is a holocaust denier himself, but that he hangs around with them.

 

[Traitorfish]

Does that automatically make anyone who talks to him the same? Recall, Jesus talked to Satan.

Jesus didn't arrange a series of meetings with Satan before hand, during which he discussed political policy. It doesn't make them the same- whatever you want to say about Paul, the man isn't actually a fascist- but it makes Paul either an oblivious fool or a very shady character.

Remember; Nick Griffon is a holocaust denialist, who denies certain aspects of the holocaust, is a known bigot and neo-nazi.

He's not a neo-Nazi. Very few contemporary fascists are. There's an ideological continuity, no doubt, but to reduce it to neo-Nazism artificially segregates contemporary fascism from the more mainstream far-right, providing cover for fascist-tending right-wingers, and perhaps more dangerously permits actual fascists like Griffin to position themselves among these fellow travellers. As well-meaning as it might be, crying "Nazi" at every far-right populist confuses the issue and provides the fash an entirely unwarranted cover.