scherbchen
well that can´t be good
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2006
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happy to help
German help needed!
- Thread starter Mirc
- Start date
eastsidebagel
Deity
I don't think there is any difference in the meaning of those words.
There is a difference in how you construct sentences with them. "Weil" starts a subordinate clause (Nebensatz) and "denn" connects two main clauses (Hauptsätze). Because "denn" always connects two sentences, the reason given by "denn" always has to come after the fact it refers to. On the other hand, the subordinate clause started by "Weil" can be anywhere you want.
I think, you don't have to use "denn", you can always work around it with "weil". But that doesn't work the other way around.
I think the difference is similar to "because" and "for" in English, but I don't think "denn" is as archaic as "for".
holy king
Deity
not by a long shot, but it does sound awkward in spoken language.
Thorbal
not enough ram!
When in doubt, just use something with an umlaut. For example "Äh" or "öh" or "ääääääääh". If that doesn´t help, just mumble something like "grmpfmlrmpf". Alternatively: "Hä? (pause) äääh..". Always works!
Godwynn
March to the Sea
- Joined
- May 17, 2003
- Messages
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What about "tun" and "machen" are they interchangeable?
Was hast du heute getan? Was hast du heute gemacht? (What did you do today?) [machen sounds correct to me]
Mir tut die Hand weh. (My hand hurts.) I don't think machen will fit in there.
Was hast du heute getan? Was hast du heute gemacht? (What did you do today?) [machen sounds correct to me]
Mir tut die Hand weh. (My hand hurts.) I don't think machen will fit in there.
scherbchen
well that can´t be good
- Joined
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very much interchangeable.
was tust du? (rarer) or was machst du?
was hast du getan (more common) or was hast du gemacht? (rare)
tun (as you have pointed out) does not work in some cases.
was tust du? (rarer) or was machst du?
was hast du getan (more common) or was hast du gemacht? (rare)
tun (as you have pointed out) does not work in some cases.
holy king
Deity
examples are correct. (machen doesnt fit indeed.)
"etwas tut weh" is a standalone phrase anyway.
however, you say "ich mache meine hausaufgabe", but not "ich tue meine hausaufgabe", whereas you can say "ich mache meine arbeit" as well as "ich tue meine arbeit".
no rule here, just common usage, sorry.
eastsidebagel
Deity
Well, Mr.Godwynn, commonly you could translate "tun" as "to do" and "machen" as "to make;create". In spoken language however, nobody cares so much about the difference. And your given examples are flawless, so you already saw how to use them.
Mirc
Not mIRC!!!
I use almost exclusively "denn" since word order is damn complicated enough for me to complicate it more. Does this sound "a bit awkward in spoken language"? 
Similar, but probably more complex question - when should I use the Präteritum and when should I use the Perfekt? I can never decide!
Similar, but probably more complex question - when should I use the Präteritum and when should I use the Perfekt? I can never decide!
Thorbal
not enough ram!
I use almost exclusively "denn" since word order is damn complicated enough for me to complicate it more. Does this sound "a bit awkward in spoken language"?
Similar, but probably more complex question - when should I use the Präteritum and when should I use the Perfekt? I can never decide!
I´d say that the distinction between the two forms is not as strict in German as in English. In everyday speech, both forms can be used. The Präteritum is more prevalent in northern Germany than in southern Germany, at least one of my linguistics profs told me so.
But technically (written German, but I don´t think most people think/know of that), you may only use the Perfekt when the content of your sentence has "Gegenwartsbezug" iirc. I currently have no idea how to translate it
. ~ It has to have some relevance to today/what you are doing or talking about at the moment.Perhaps I can think of an example - if you´re talking to a friend about a book you´ve read with the intention of telling him something about it´s contents, most would say: "I habe gestern Buch X gelesen". "I las Buch X" sounds a bit odd in this context, although it´s not technically wrong.
holy king
Deity
präteritum is for written language, perfekt for spoken language. generally.
depends on the spoken dialect or whatever you are trying to achieve with what you're writing.
for you they are totally interchangeable and probably will be forever.
Mirc
Not mIRC!!!
Ah I see!
In that case, I will go by what I go now - if the first to come to my mind is the imperfect (=Präteritum) form, I'll use it, if the past participle is easier to remember, I'll use that!
On average, the Perfekt is harder for me as the auxiliary verb depends on whether the main verb is "moving" or "stationary", and also makes the word order a bit harder for me, but then again the Präteritum is harder with verbs with a separable prefix.
So I have the perfect solution - whatever my memory brings up first.
holy king
Deity
that's the point. it's a matter of style, not a matter of rules.
eastsidebagel
Deity
Yes, but as I answer those questions all the time: Don't bother with that too much. You'll get better in a stable course with practising your skills, so don't be ashamed to speak with some flaws and be grateful for everybody who is correcting you.I use almost exclusively "denn" since word order is damn complicated enough for me to complicate it more. Does this sound "a bit awkward in spoken language"?
Ich habe es gemacht. - I have done it.
Ich machte es. - I did it.
Do you see any significant difference? I don't, so just speak in the way it seems more approbiate in the respective sentences. And you never do something wrong when you use like 90% of the time Perfekt, because it's just so much more common in spoken language. Präterium tend to sound a little more awkward when you use it too frequently, but actually that's up to decide for everybody on his own.
holy king
Deity
eastsidebagel
Deity
Yes, good idea. I started the same way when I began to get the hang of English too.In that case, I will go by what I go now - if the first to come to my mind is the imperfect (=Präteritum) form, I'll use it, if the past participle is easier to remember, I'll use that!
Mirc
Not mIRC!!!
I see!
Well in this particular case I wouldn't have used the Präteritum form "las" anyway since I forgot it long ago.
In English, there is a difference.
I assume the one in German is smaller, though. eastsidebagel
Deity
There's not a huge different in English either for that matter. Like you've said it, it's mainly a question of style and linguistic rhythm, and not the message you try to get across to your listeners.i see the significant difference in english. not in german. dont confuse him.
Thorbal
not enough ram!
To summarize, I´d say that you should just use whatever comes to your mind initially, although you should perhaps focus a bit more on Perfekt forms over time, as they seem to be much more common (in conversation, als Holy King said). Too much Präteritum can sound clunky.
