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Google looses right to be forgotten case in EU

By eliminating the need for balance, the ruling shockingly undermines important speech rights in return for a bit of online obscurity.

If there is a legitimate public interest, the right to be forgotten could not be exercised, so there is balance.

The majority of people in the UK support the right to be forgotten. In other countries such as France it would have overwhelming support.


From YouGov

By 50-23% British people think internet results about people should be removed if they are “inadequate, irrelevant or no longer relevant” – but few have use for the rule

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/05/15/public-support-right-be-forgotten/

The Citizens of the EU have the right to have their priorities reflected in their laws and court judgements. If Google etc wish to do business in the EU they should abide by the laws and court judgements that reflect these wishes. Google etc are free to stop doing business in the EU if they do not like it.
 
Does this affect the Wayback Machine?
 
The ruling was about "private and irrelevant information", not about reviews and a politician's prior behaviour as a politician.
So, yeah...

If I am a lender then my potential debtor's past bankruptcy is relevant.
 
Why would a lender be keeping track of their debtors via Google? Do they not have their own files or something?
 
Why wouldn't one? If you are performing a check on a potential debtor then Google, among other places, seems like a good place to start.
 
I was thinking a credit reporting bureau, which I imagine would have a bit more verification.
 
The viability of one method of vesting debtors does not diminish the utility of another method. There's no reason why a lender would not Google a debtor and several reasons why a lender would not rely solely upon the report of a credit bureau including that credit checks cost money and that credit bureau do not keep records indefinitely.

The Lincoln Savings snafu is too old to show up on Charles Keating's credit report.
 
Does this affect the Wayback Machine?

Yes.

And yes lenders have their own files and use credit reference agencies which would records. So potential lenders would know that you were in financial difficulty fifteen years ago but not some random person who goggles your name

In the UK you can ask for corrections to your credit reference or add notes with explanations.

It is possible for incorrect or outdated information to appear on your credit report. If it does, it can affect your chances of getting the loans, credit cards, and other credit products you deserve. If you find an error, take the following steps to correct the information as soon as possible

http://www.equifax.co.uk/Products/learning-centre/correcting-errors-on-your-eport.html
 
I don't have my own files, and I'm a potential lendor (as if pretty much anyone). I'd also probably not use a credit rating agency.
 
Hm...

Google may be a huge internet site, but why would anyone trying to erase stuff actually only view google as the issue?

In other words: i don't care if google (which seems pretty rotten anyway) is made to erase some info (which, sadly, will be taken advantage of and won't be about largely about good anyway), but what is the point of that if the same info will be circulated still and just not be in google hits?

I think the logic behind telling Google to remove the links would be to make it harder for people to find the info you are trying to hide while you work to get rid of the source of the information.

Kozmos said:
No privacy for anyone.

I was starting to agree with your statement until this part. Are you seriously advocating the destruction of the right to privacy? If you are, that pretty much makes you one of the most terrible people on the planet. Our lives should NOT be an open book without our consent to make it so. Also, if someone gives consent to make their life an open book they should also have to right to withdraw that consent at any time they wish.
 
I was starting to agree with your statement until this part. Are you seriously advocating the destruction of the right to privacy? If you are, that pretty much makes you one of the most terrible people on the planet. Our lives should NOT be an open book without our consent to make it so. Also, if someone gives consent to make their life an open book they should also have to right to withdraw that consent at any time they wish.

I am finding privacy difficult to maintain. Especially in the future. I can envision a couple of theoretical models where it might work, but it is a stretch. If someone wants to find you or learn stuff about you they will. Call it another price of urbanized civilization. Why the need to hide though? We all have bad stuff just nobody is willing to admit it. I find it ridiculous, the worst parts of human ego. Make everything public, even the slates. Not hiding stuff also makes it a helluva lot easier on your brain too, not pretending to be this perfectly balanced person, admitting you are weird and not being a bastard without being willing to own up to it.
 
I am finding privacy difficult to maintain. Especially in the future. I can envision a couple of theoretical models where it might work, but it is a stretch. If someone wants to find you or learn stuff about you they will. Call it another price of urbanized civilization. Why the need to hide though? We all have bad stuff just nobody is willing to admit it. I find it ridiculous, the worst parts of human ego. Make everything public, even the slates. Not hiding stuff also makes it a helluva lot easier on your brain too, not pretending to be this perfectly balanced person, admitting you are weird and not being a bastard without being willing to own up to it.

Why do you assume that because someone wants privacy that they must be trying to hide something bad? Maybe some people just feel like a complete stranger has no right to access information about their life without putting in the work to become a friend. Maybe I feel like a complete stranger doesn't have the right to set up surveillance cameras in my house without my knowledge so they can watch my every move for whatever sick reason someone would do that. Now I know that sounds ridiculous, but that is the kind of world you are advocating for when you blurt out stupid statements like "No privacy for anyone." Where do we draw the line in the no-privacy world you advocate? I mean, if you are allowed to look up my information without my consent, I should be allowed to install cameras and microphones in your house without your consent.

And while you are correct in saying that if someone wants to get your information they will get it anyway, you are completely wrong in the conclusion you draw from that. Just because it is getting harder to protect privacy does not mean we should give up on it. Just because someone will get the information eventually doesn't mean we should make it easier for them to do so. Some semblance of privacy is absolutely essential for any society that wishes to have liberty.

I don't think you really have thought your position through enough to realize just how terrible the world you advocate would really be. A world without privacy is a world without any kind of civil rights at all. Think about it: If everything is public here are a few of the things you would have to tolerate with no recourse to stop it:

1. People can come into your home without your consent and examine anything in it, because hey, your neighbors have a right to know who's living next to them right?

2. The police can conduct searches on you and your property without your consent or a warrant from a judge.

3. Your neighbors would be allowed to pop a seat in your bedroom and watch you have sex with your significant other or masturbate, because hey "no privacy for anyone". Oh they would also be allowed to film it and post it on the internet without your consent.

You see, no privacy removes all personal and social boundaries and would ultimately create a massively dysfunctional society. If that's what you really want, then I reiterate my statement that you are one of the most terrible people on the planet.
 
The viability of one method of vesting debtors does not diminish the utility of another method. There's no reason why a lender would not Google a debtor and several reasons why a lender would not rely solely upon the report of a credit bureau including that credit checks cost money and that credit bureau do not keep records indefinitely.

I'm not really particularly concerned with the tribulations of the moneyed and more powerful entity in these transactions. They're not the ones who need more protection.


Good to know. Also, I didn't know Equifax also operated in the UK.
 

:goodjob:
Not everything considering privacy is something to hide.

And the other side: There are people who legitimately have something to hide.
Ask Edward Snowden.
Ask a human rights activist in Saudi Arabia.
Ask a reporter in China.
Ask a gay rights activist in Russia.

Or also here.
You might not want that your neighbour knows about your erectile dysfunction.
Or your boss about your depression.
Or anyone around that your child has become a drug addict, your husband an alcoholic or an addicted gambler.
 
Why do you assume that because someone wants privacy that they must be trying to hide something bad? Maybe some people just feel like a complete stranger has no right to access information about their life without putting in the work to become a friend. Maybe I feel like a complete stranger doesn't have the right to set up surveillance cameras in my house without my knowledge so they can watch my every move for whatever sick reason someone would do that. Now I know that sounds ridiculous, but that is the kind of world you are advocating for when you blurt out stupid statements like "No privacy for anyone." Where do we draw the line in the no-privacy world you advocate? I mean, if you are allowed to look up my information without my consent, I should be allowed to install cameras and microphones in your house without your consent.

And while you are correct in saying that if someone wants to get your information they will get it anyway, you are completely wrong in the conclusion you draw from that. Just because it is getting harder to protect privacy does not mean we should give up on it. Just because someone will get the information eventually doesn't mean we should make it easier for them to do so. Some semblance of privacy is absolutely essential for any society that wishes to have liberty.

I don't think you really have thought your position through enough to realize just how terrible the world you advocate would really be. A world without privacy is a world without any kind of civil rights at all. Think about it: If everything is public here are a few of the things you would have to tolerate with no recourse to stop it:

1. People can come into your home without your consent and examine anything in it, because hey, your neighbors have a right to know who's living next to them right?

2. The police can conduct searches on you and your property without your consent or a warrant from a judge.

3. Your neighbors would be allowed to pop a seat in your bedroom and watch you have sex with your significant other or masturbate, because hey "no privacy for anyone". Oh they would also be allowed to film it and post it on the internet without your consent.

You see, no privacy removes all personal and social boundaries and would ultimately create a massively dysfunctional society. If that's what you really want, then I reiterate my statement that you are one of the most terrible people on the planet.

Obviously you've taken lack of privacy means total disregard of other human laws, like trespassing, B&E, lewd behaviour and so forth. Maybe I am a terrible person and you'd might be quite right to judge so, but I believe everyone's record should be matter of public information, this law makes it so that Google has to hide any deeds or misdeeds you don't want to make known. After all everyone loses their mind when a sex offender moves in your neighbourhood. Would you mind against living next to an ex-death squad member, a white supremacist, someone who plays with Ebola in their basement?
 
The white supremacist has rights, too - if he wants to keep his politics quiet, that's his business. Many people have embarrassing aspects of their life or even things which are private for their own sakes. You have a right to keep those things private by default, unless there's a good reason that they should be made public. Bear in mind that I've 'lived' in a place where making your religion public could be considered a form of suicide.
 
Would you mind against living next to an ex-death squad member, a white supremacist, someone who plays with Ebola in their basement?

Has that novel been written yet?
 
Obviously you've taken lack of privacy means total disregard of other human laws, like trespassing, B&E, lewd behaviour and so forth.

But you said "no privacy for anyone". That means that if I want to know about your sex life you have to let me watch. If I want to know where you keep all of your important documents, you have to tell me. If I want to make sure you aren't making biological weapons in your house then you have to let me search your house, whether or not I am a police officer. That is what "no privacy for anyone" means. It means you cannot hide anything from ANYONE. You must leave your entire life open and accessible to any individual or organization that wants to peek into your life. Now if that is not the kind of world you are advocating, then perhaps you should consider amending your "no privacy for anyone" statement.

Maybe I am a terrible person and you'd might be quite right to judge so, but I believe everyone's record should be matter of public information, this law makes it so that Google has to hide any deeds or misdeeds you don't want to make known. After all everyone loses their mind when a sex offender moves in your neighbourhood. Would you mind against living next to an ex-death squad member, a white supremacist, someone who plays with Ebola in their basement?[/QUOTE]

I am actually against the sex offender database. I think it is unjust persecution of convicts who have served their time. By putting them in a database that anyone can look up, thus opening them up to attacks (which has happened in the past), you are essentially punishing them for a crime that according to their prison term, they have already paid for. It especially bothers me because there are very minor offenses that get you put on the sex offender list. But this is a topic of its own that I will not discuss further in this thread.

As to your point: No I would not like living next to those type of people, but as long as they are not overtly hostile towards me or my family, then it is none of my damn business to go poking around their records. Not to mention the point you are raising is starting to cross into some very dangerous territory. The whole "don't you want to know who your neighbors are?" argument can very easily drift into the "let's start weeding out the undesirables" argument.

I think what you are failing to see is that the right to privacy really is the foundation for most of the civil liberties and rights we still have. Now you are saying you want to take that foundation. Well what do you think happens when you take that foundation away? Say good-bye to religious freedom, free speech, a free press, protection from unwarranted search and seizure, etc. It may seem crazy, but if you sit down and really think about it, you can tie the right to privacy to just about every single civil right we have.

I also have to ask this question since you brought up the whole knowing your neighbors thing: What makes you think you have the right to look up someone's records? What authority do you have that allows you to be privy to every detail of someone's life? I'll tell you: You have no right and you have no authority to access another private citizen's personal information. Stop being a busy-body and leave people alone unless they are a current, active threat to you or your family.

And the reason I say you are a terrible person over this is because you are too short-sighted to see how you would be violating someone's rights and making their life miserable, just so you can have peace-of-mind that your neighbor isn't an axe-murderer.
 
Perhaps I made too broad of a statement or wasn't specific enough. I meant accountability in public life. My disgusting sex habits might prove interesting to some, but are rather unimportant in the grand scheme of things. You know people by who they are and what they did. Even so what I said about common law still being in effect, we know deep down human rights and civil liberties are convenient BS, you really have no rights you can't defend yourself or more reasonably with a group of close people you can trust because you share/know the essential information between you.

Honesty. When people hoard secrets and information and wealth they are not doing so in the interest of the common people, they are doing it to keep their asses comfy and secure or push their own agendas. All your information is networked in some shape or fashion. Right now, who has access to it? Government groups and occasionally a hacker collective when they bust a treasure chest. They can make diagrams, connect the dots, they know who's who and where with what and when. What can you know? Nothing, unless you get your hands dirty.
 
Perhaps I made too broad of a statement or wasn't specific enough. I meant accountability in public life. My disgusting sex habits might prove interesting to some, but are rather unimportant in the grand scheme of things. You know people by who they are and what they did. Even so what I said about common law still being in effect, we know deep down human rights and civil liberties are convenient BS, you really have no rights you can't defend yourself or more reasonably with a group of close people you can trust because you share/know the essential information between you.

Honesty. When people hoard secrets and information and wealth they are not doing so in the interest of the common people, they are doing it to keep their asses comfy and secure or push their own agendas. All your information is networked in some shape or fashion. Right now, who has access to it? Government groups and occasionally a hacker collective when they bust a treasure chest. They can make diagrams, connect the dots, they know who's who and where with what and when. What can you know? Nothing, unless you get your hands dirty.

^Which is why i am currently developing a reasonably cost effective anti-hacker program which can go the extra step of physically harming those enemies of the public. I am not at liberty to present it in any detail, since even typing through a multitude of proxies with built-in dead-ends does not really afford me sufficient immunity for such a tell-tale attitude.

Suffice to say that the rain this season will be- next to the setting of the pale sky - an unmistakeable banner of blood.
 
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