How to get a job (or not)

[hobbsyoyo]

I'm going back through and merging stuff as well as cutting out a lot of superfluous sentences.

This resume is both a coverpage and the resume in one and for that I have no control over. So I think it should be 2 pages simply for that fact. I can definitely trim more fat out of it.

I'm just leery to start cutting out entire jobs from my work history. I already feel like I'm leaving out a lot by not including my managerial experience. However, if I cut out more jobs, then I'll just end up looking like the typical 19 year old inexperienced college student, which I'm not.

I can condense some of the stuff I've listed in my job experience section down, but I can't cut it all entirely because if I leave any field blank then the software I use will render my resume so that it looks like:
Job Experience
[blank field]

 

[Cheetah]

I've always been told your resume shouldn't be over a page. If employers want information about all the jobs you've ever had they can ask for a Curriculum Vitae.

I can't say I've ever distinguished much between the terms 'resume' and 'CV'... They're/It's an overview of my prior experiences and education that may be relevant to the job in question.

And I've always limited myself to two pages. Even though downtown said longer is okay since it's digital, if there's too much to read through, I'm not sure the person looking to hire will bother reading it all.

The application itself would usually be just a page or less though, and would be much more tailored to the specific job I was applying for.

 

[Zelig]

In my experience, in North America the only time a resume and CV are particularly different is if you're specifically referring to an academic CV which includes a list of grants, awards, publications, teaching positions, etc.

 

[downtown]

The one page rule for your resume is dated advice, since just about everything is digital now. If it takes more than a page to describe your accomplishments and experiences, that is totally fine. I have a lot of applicants leave out important info because they're afraid of the one page rule.

Unless you're an academic or a certain kind of IT specialist, it probably shouldn't be over two pages though. Ain't nobody got time for that. I'm never reading past page 2.

 

[ace99]

So 2 page rule now then. That's better I suppose.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

It certainly helps me out!

And since there is no cover page (what the cover page includes is covered in the first three text fields) I guess I can get away with 3 pages then?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Mine has been two sides of a single sheet for many years.

Employers rarely reject a candidate for a two page rather than a one page resume. You get rejected for not being qualified. Now, I was recently sent a 17 page resume for a $30K position. He did not get an interview because he showed bad judgment in applying by sending me 16 pages of senseless filler.

 

[Zelig]

I don't think I'd print my resume double-sided.

 

[Mise]

I don't think I'd every print my resume.

 

[downtown]

Mine has been two sides of a single sheet for many years.

Employers rarely reject a candidate for a two page rather than a one page resume. You get rejected for not being qualified. Now, I was recently sent a 17 page resume for a $30K position. He did not get an interview because he showed bad judgment in applying by sending me 16 pages of senseless filler.

See, that's exactly what I would think if I got a 3 page resume for a more entry level job. You can use the cover letter (which I will actually read) to help me understand all that tl;dr stuff.

 

[Zelig]

I don't think I'd every print my resume.

That too.

My office is essentially paper-free, any paper we receive gets shredded. If it's important it gets scanned first.

Our office could burn to the ground and we'd only be out a couple days of work in order to purchase new computer hardware and restore backups from the cloud.

 

[Birdjaguar]

You may not ever print you resume, but for higher paying jobs it can still be very important. If I only have your resume on a device, the moment I turn that device off or change apps, you are gone. But if I have a paper copy on my desk, It is right there all day long. I can glance at it, mark it up, think about a question to ask you or decide your bullet #3 is pretty interesting. It is always lurking at the edge of my thinking.

When you give a manager a hard copy, you are helping to keep yourself alive in their mind. A great cover letter can even be more important because it is the real selling tool that sends the manager back to your resume. Always remember the goal of a cover letter and resume: Not to be thrown in the trash! That is what happens to all the resumes of those who don't get the job.

If you want to improve your relationship with a girl and keep her interested in you, would you send her an ecard or real flowers?

 

[Zelig]

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but from the point of view of an employer, we don't accept paper resumes because we don't have an organization system in place for paper or any storage room for paper (other than our paper recycling bin) - everything we do is electronic.

From the point of view of a job seeker, pretty much any place that has a web-based HR system forces application through there. At my last employer, it was impossible to get someone on payroll without them having been filtered through the HR software by HR personnel.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Of course you have to follow application rules and apply on line, but you should have a strategy to get a paper resume in the hands of the person making the decision. It is not to the applicants advantage to let the company "system" run unchallenged. If getting that job is important to you, you need to find ways to have an advantage over the other possible choices. Getting a good job is not a passive experience.

 

[Zelig]

I would not hire someone who insisted on giving me a paper resume after I specifically told him or her that I wanted a pdf.

 

[downtown]

Of course you have to follow application rules and apply on line, but you should have a strategy to get a paper resume in the hands of the person making the decision. It is not to the applicants advantage to let the company "system" run unchallenged. If getting that job is important to you, you need to find ways to have an advantage over the other possible choices. Getting a good job is not a passive experience.

Yeah, that is true. I don't think there is anything wrong with printing off a resume when you go into an interview, just in case. The person interviewing you may not have access to the HR database, or have had a chance to print it. Many applicant tracking systems can mess up resume formatting, so having a copy of your resume looking the *best* can be useful.

That copy will probably get pitched after the interview, but if it can provide an advantage during the actual discussion, and it doesn't take any effort to do, why not do it?

I don't do in person interviews very often, but I appreciate if somebody brings another copy with me. I'm not always able to bring a copy myself.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I would not hire someone who insisted on giving me a paper resume after I specifically told him or her that I wanted a pdf.

If your rules say no paper, then that is fine, just tell all the applicants what those rules are. As the company hiring, you get to set them.

My whole point is that you shouldn't underestimate the power of paper. And to get the the job you want, the one that is perfect for you, you need every advantage you can get.

 

[GenMarshall]

In cases where there is no listing to put down club activities/volunteer work, is it permissible to list it under work history in a job application (not resume)?

 

[Flying Pig]

Volunteer work I think you could use, as long as you make it clear that it's voluntary; club activities probably not.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

It is circumstancial. If you are an accountant, then being in the accounting club and listing that is appropriate. But even then, it's really only appropriate (IMO) if you meet one or more of the following criteria:

a) You're a recent graduate with little work history
b) You've got a large gap in your employment history that the clubs help cover
c) You've got some leadership experience out of it (this is a really big deal)

So in other words, don't list your experience in the BBQ Club* if you're going to be an accountant.

*(unless you were a leader and actually coordinated big events - in which case list the club but only to talk about your actual leadership skills and the things you did as a leader)

Don't list your accountant club experience unless you went several years without working or are a 22 year old graduat with no other work experience. If you have any work experience, then list that before you clutter your resume with club experience. Unless, of course, you were on the leadership team of the accounting club.

Do not try and construe your club experience as 'volunteer work' unless you were doing actual volunteering work (as a member of Habitat for Humanities club or something).

It is preferable to list your club experience with projects and specific actions/events. For instance, don't just put "Chair, Accounting Club" when you could put "As the Chair of the Accounting Club, I oversaw a project where we reviewed over 250 bylaws in detail and revised them to bring them up to current best practices in the industry".

Even if you weren't a leader, if you helped substantially coordinate an event or you had some big project, do talk about that in your resume. It's also handy to keep photos, charts, or other 'proof' of your contribution to a project so that you can present them at an interview. For example, I made a proposal for food service at a campus when I was on the college board. I kept the documents from the proposal as well as the slide show and I'm currently posting them to a website (which I link to on my resume) to show the inquiring resume reader what I've done. This also makes it an optional thing that they don't have to read, and it doesn't clutter my resume. But it's there and it's proof of my accomplishment.