How to get a job (or not)

[Birdjaguar]

I have a few questions about the resume I had to create to apply for various Boeing jobs. I was kind of shooting for what Warpus was talking about in the quoted paragraph when I filled in the following catagories:

Spoiler :

JOB INTEREST
I am interested in aerospace engineering jobs. I would prefer to work on space craft or space-related systems but would just as happily work on aircraft. I wish to break into the aerospace field; it's why I returned to school and earned my GED after having dropped out at 17. {I am going to rewrite this paragraph, it's bad}

It took me 4 years in community college to work my way up from middle school level math to differential equations so that I could transfer to a university in order to continue my studies. I've been steadily working at getting my education while also holding jobs and student leadership positions all so that I may exit school and land a job working in the aerospace field. This is the goal of my entire life until this point. I hope Boeing is the kind of place that values my hard work and would welcome me into it's ranks.

PERSONAL INTERESTS
I love everything space. I read books such as 'Space Settlements: A Design Study' (A NASA design study from the 70's on space-based solar power stations) and 'Making Space Happen' (a book about the growing commercialization of outer space) for fun. I stay current on the aerospace industry and frequent websites to read about companies like Boeing and their newest commercial products or endeavors. Even the video games I play (when I have time) are based around my love of space. Currently on Christmas break, I've been playing a game called Kerbal Space Program where the goal is to build your own Space Program and to explore the solar system, complete with realistic orbital dynamics.

OBJECTIVE
I wish one day to build or design rocket systems like Boeing's CST-100 capsule or the Space Launch System. As I said before, I'd be just as happy working on an F-18 improvement, but my heart belongs to outer space and all of the kinds of wonderful (and in my opinion, completely awesome) projects that Boeing does in the final frontier

The format (Job Interest, Personal Interests, Objective) is completely out of my control. But have I hit the right tone with what I've written. I want it to be personal and show my deep interest in the field without being too cavalier. What do you all think?

Also, there are some sections where I've used bullets to list things. Here's an example:

Spoiler :

EXPERIENCE
05/01/2009 - 05/01/2011: Student Trustee on the Board of Trustees
XYZ Community College
As the Student Trustee, I worked closely within the team that forms the Board of Trustees to ensure that student's needs were being met by the college. I helped pass budgets that both satisfied the requirements of my 16,000 students while meeting the fiscal responsibilities of the institution.

I read through board reports and produced my own on various aspects of the college that dealt with student issues such as tuition and course offerings. I gave these reports in person at committee meetings, board meetings and at various statewide student trustee functions I attended during my tenure. I became intimately familiar with Microsoft Office products like Excel, PowerPoint and Word that helped me create and use the various reports I needed in my day-to-day work. {the next part, the bulleted part, is what I typed under the 'accomplishments part of the resume and this is the way the software presented it, without a seperate 'accomplishments' heading}
*I was twice elected by the student body.

*I simultaneously held the offices of President of the Student Government, Chair of the Illinois Community College Board - Student Advisory Committee (ICCB-SAC; a statewide committee that serves the Governor) and later served as Recording Officer of ICCB-SAC.

*During my tenure, I put together a detailed plan to bring student food service to one of the college's satellite campus by working closing {frakking typo } with a team of administrators and I also help {} look out for the interests of the students during one of the most challenging budgetary cycles in the college's history.

*Lobbied state and federal government on behalf of the college on trips to Springfield and Washington DC.

*Lead the student government to pass a new founding document akin to a constitution, which I drafted.

*Drafted a 'how-to' manual for new student trustees that ICCB-SAC distributes every year to students from across Illinois.

Is this ok, or should I rewrite the bulleted lists in solid paragraphs?

I am also going to go back to this entry (and my other experience entries) and add in figures and numbers about the budget, the number of employees the board and I were responsible for, the tense state budgetary climate we operated under and so on. That's good right? To give more specifics?

One last question. The resume I've written comes to 3.25 pages. Now, part of this is because when I download it with word to read it, the weird formatting of the website software has lopped off a full quarter of the page with a giant, unmovable right margin. So it's really probably closer to 2-2.5 pages. Also, I've listed my last three jobs going back to 2009 (I could have gone back further, but those jobs were much less relevant to the positions I'm going for) and made sure to include all of my accomplishments and so forth, so that adds a lot. But using the bulleted format adds length.

How important is it that I cut this down to a page?

I would not include Personal interest, job interest or objective in your resume at all. I see them as just filler. for your work experience, as has been said, accomplishments are much better than responsibilities. Use lots of numbers in them too. My resume, though, has responsibilities followed by accomplishments for each position.

Bullets are good.

Depending upon how senior a position you are seeking, I would go back 10 years of job history; unless it creates other problems. Ideally, you have shown steady progress in responsibility and position.

That whole Student Government section seems unnecessary if you have 5-8 years of work history. I'd leave it at:

June 2009 - May 2011: Student Trustee on the Board of Trustees
XYZ Community College

I would change your dates to be month plus year (May 2102). They are easier to read and understand.

In your cover letter you should list all the stated qualifications in the job positing and match your experience to each one. Like so:

MBA preferred: MBA from UNC-CH with emphasis on marketing
5 years experience in telecommunications or related field:3 years as district manager with Sprint; 5 years leading bandwidth development teams at Cisco.
Supervisory Experience:Lead 4-7 person teams at Cisco on projects that lasted 6 to 18 months each.

If you can match yourself to each of their requirements, you can almost guarantee your self an interview. A well-written cover letter is a powerful tool.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I would not include Personal interest, job interest or objective in your resume at all. I see them as just filler. for your work experience, as has been said, accomplishments are much better than responsibilities. Use lots of numbers in them too. My resume, though, has responsibilities followed by accomplishments for each position.

I have no choice in the format, which I said in the original post and almost every single response so far.

The process is thus:
I go to Boeing's website and look for jobs. I find a job I want and it asks for my resume. I have to type in a resume using their software that has their preferred format. I cannot upload a resume, I can copy and paste from one I already have, but I have to use their format.

They have fields I have to fill in including Personal interest, Job interest and Objective. I have to fill these in. When I leave them blank, the resume ends up looking like this:
Personal Interest
[blank space]
Job Interest
[blank space]
Objective
[blank space]

I have no choice but to fill these fields in. I appreciate everyone telling me it's a waste of time and bad, I really do. I have no choice.

*I will remove all of the references to responsibilities in the accomplishments sections
*I will add more numbers
*I cannot swap the order of responsibilities and accomplishments, I am stuck with the format they're making me use.

Bullets are good.

*I will keep them then. Seriously though, thanks, I was hoping for additional confirmation of this.

Depending upon how senior a position you are seeking, I would go back 10 years of job history; unless it creates other problems. Ideally, you have shown steady progress in responsibility and position.

I am applying for internships and co-ops. There is no seniority to them. The jobs I've listed going back to 2009 all have some bearing on the jobs I'm applying for. I can go back to when I entered the workforce in 2006, but the only things those jobs have that has any bearing on anything is that they showed I can take orders, have proven myself worthy of advancement (I was always promoted) and that I have mid-level managerial experience at resteraunts.

I thought about adding them, but then the resume would get seriously long. Again, this is because for each job I have a series of fields I have to fill in. I can't leave them blank and while I could make very short entries, I had a lot of jobs in those years.

Should I go ahead and add those other jobs given this job requires no seniority and is for students?

That whole Student Government section seems unnecessary if you have 5-8 years of work history. I'd leave it at:

June 2009 - May 2011: Student Trustee on the Board of Trustees
XYZ Community College

I would change your dates to be month plus year (May 2102). They are easier to read and understand.

Honestly, most of my work history outside of that were in restaraunts or doing busy work for the college/university.

The Student Government position, IMO, is the biggest thing I've done so far. I had many more responsibilities and simply did much more complicated stuff in that position than in everything else combined. I don't even mean that in a 'oh geeze look what I did gaize!' manner.

I did a ton of work for that position, I drafted professional reports, business plans for new services, gave speeches and all kinds of stuff. It's really relevant, particularly since many of the job postings look for 'team players' who can operate in 'demanding team-oriented and goal-focused' environments.

That sums up my entire experience in the Student Trustee, 'demanding team-oriented and goal-focused environment'. Plus I was doing it on top of being a full time student while also working part time because the Board doesn't get paid. So that's definately staying on my resume. And I'm still a student, applying for a student internship/co-op, so I think that also makes it relevant, even given my work history.

One other thing I just remembered: I have a mentor who works at Boeing and he stressed that I should hit on the Student Trustee stuff; he thinks it's important to emphasize it for these positions. They want go-getters, not awkward talk-to-your-shoes-never-make-eye-contact types. They have those in spades.


As for the month plus year (May 2012), I can't do that. I tried, and the software kicks back an invalid entry message if it isn't formatted mm/dd/yyyy.

In your cover letter you should list all the stated qualifications in the job positing and match your experience to each one. Like so:

MBA preferred: MBA from UNC-CH with emphasis on marketing
5 years experience in telecommunications or related field:3 years as district manager with Sprint; 5 years leading bandwidth development teams at Cisco.
Supervisory Experience:Lead 4-7 person teams at Cisco on projects that lasted 6 to 18 months each.

Oh how I wish it was this easy. The format they make me use gets a bit frustrating.

If you can match yourself to each of their requirements, you can almost guarantee your self an interview. A well-written cover letter is a powerful tool.

That's what I was trying to do by including MS Excel and such. The cover letter doesn't exist, all I have is the Job Interests, Personal Interests and Objective parts. I'm rewriting those tomorrow, do you think I struck the right tone with them?


Thanks a million,
hobbs

 

[Birdjaguar]

It is too bad that their form is so restrictive. Since you do have a mentor in the company, do follow his advice. I would create a real resume and cover letter for Boeing though; one that is not so structured. Bring that one to any interview and pass it out then. Trust your mentor to get you the interview and then be thoughtful at the interview and have a list of questions that you could ask them, and leave your "good" resume with them. That is the the one they are likely to refer back to.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

It is too bad that their form is so restrictive. Since you do have a mentor in the company, do follow his advice. I would create a real resume and cover letter for Boeing though; one that is not so structured.

That is a really good idea, thanks so much for this advice. I will do that for sure.

Bring that one to any interview and pass it out then.

I hadn't considered making another resume to hand out, but I was going to bring writing samples from my current marketing/technical writing job as well as copies of some of my student trustee reports and such.

Trust your mentor to get you the interview and then be thoughtful at the interview and have a list of questions that you could ask them, and leave your "good" resume with them. That is the the one they are likely to refer back to.

Will do. Thanks a ton! I'm in the process of memorizing the questions you listed on the first page of this thread and mentally restructuring them to apply directly to Boeing.


hobbs

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Supervisory Experience:Lead 4-7 person teams at Cisco on projects that lasted 6 to 18 months each.

If you can match yourself to each of their requirements, you can almost guarantee your self an interview. A well-written cover letter is a powerful tool.

Birdjaguar, unless you are suggesting this list be written in present tense, you also have a spelling error (don't infract me for being a grammar-Nazi; this is relevant to the thread). I was told to always use past tense for accomplishments and responsibilities that happened in the past. "Lead" is present tense. It's also an element of the Periodic Table.

The correct word to use in hobbsyoyo's case is led.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Would someone kindly take a sentence or two where I used the wrong perspective and/or tense and rewrite it in the correct format? I want to make sure I'm doing it write.

Thank you

 

[Hygro]

I saw a lot of "I" statements. From what I've learned, it's best to keep it entirely pronoun free. Thoughts?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I had been told that it is a positive to make I statements, but I could be wrong. At least it seems to me that people here think it's wrong.

 

[Flying Pig]

Overuse of the word 'I' can come across as egocentrical and arrogant. That said, missing it out altogether makes you sound like a neanderthal - 'while at school, was head boy', I mean! If you can link sentances to remove the pronoun, that might be a good idea - 'while at school, I was head boy, and captain of the rugby team, which was undefeated for a year.' sounds less egomaniacal than 'while at school, I was head boy. I was captain of the rugby team, which was undefeated for a year', as well as more fluent. You could even go for 'the school rugby team, in my final year as head boy and captain, were unbeaten'.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Yes, the problem is that when I use the bullet format, it's hard to word them in a way that doesn't sound stupid to my ears. For example:

*Made a cany cane
*Did a report
*Graduated with an AA

While the above examples are very simplistic and surely could be written better, I don't see a way to list stuff that avoids "I", that is also a complete sentence and doesn't sound bad.

As for the prose parts, I can certainly reword them and take out some of the 'I' 's.

 

[Flying Pig]

Ah, if you're using bullet-points, then just dropping the I's might work - you could say something like:

In the past year I have made several steps towards becoming suitable for this job, such as

• Taking this job
• Learning this skill
• Achieving this qualification

You don't really need either complete sentences or any prose, my resume is pretty much exclusively short bullet points.

Probably depends on whether you're applying for a job which requires a decent level of language skills, writing ability or 'a good education' - those will probably select in favour of people with grammatically-written CVs, although the clarity that you get from bullet points will also help

 

[Zelig]

You don't really need either complete sentences or any prose, my resume is pretty much exclusively short bullet points.

Probably depends on whether you're applying for a job which requires a decent level of language skills, writing ability or 'a good education' - those will probably select in favour of people with grammatically-written CVs, although the clarity that you get from bullet points will also help

It's quite clear from my resume/cover letter that I can write well. In any case, I don't necessarily recommend a resume consisting solely of bullets.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Thank you both that clarifies things for me.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I have done my best to incorporate everyone's advice and clean up my resume.


JOB INTEREST

Spoiler :

I would prefer to work on space craft or space-related systems but would just as happily work on aircraft. Projects such as Boeing's CST-100 capsule excite me as do Boeing's contributions to the International Space Station and the Space Launch System. I could also see myself working on a project such as the new wings that Boeing is designing for the A-10. For me, spacecraft, rockets and airplanes are where it's at.

PERSONAL INTERESTS

Spoiler :

I love everything aerospace. I read books such as 'Space Settlements: A Design Study' (A NASA design study from the 70's on space-based solar power stations) and 'Making Space Happen' (a book about the growing commercialization of outer space) for fun. I stay current on the aerospace industry and frequent websites to read and talk to others about companies like Boeing and their newest commercial products or endeavors.

OBJECTIVE

Spoiler :

I wish to break into the aerospace field.

This is the reason why I returned to school and earned my GED after having dropped out at 17. It took me 4 years in community college to work my way up from middle school level math to differential equations so that I could transfer to a university in order to continue my studies. I've been steadily working at getting my education while also holding jobs and student leadership positions all so that I may exit school and land a job working in the aerospace field. This is the goal of my entire life until this point. I hope Boeing is the kind of place that values my hard work and would welcome me into it's ranks.

EXPERIENCE
05/01/2009 - 05/01/2011: Student Trustee on the Board of Trustees
XYZ College

Spoiler :

During two terms on the Board I:

*Helped pass budgets and set administrative priorities that both satisfied the needs of the nearly 13,000 students while meeting the fiscal responsibilities of the institution.

*Read board reports and produced my own that I presented to the board, administration and at various statewide student trustee functions I attended during my tenure. I used Microsoft Office products like Excel, PowerPoint and Word that helped me create and use the various reports.

*Served as head of the Student Government where it was my job to be the go-between for the student body and the administration of the college.

Some of my accomplishments include:

*Being twice elected by the student body.

*Putting together a detailed and fiscally-responsible plan to bring student food service to one of the college's satellite campus by working closing with a team of administrators.

*Leading successful lobbying trips to the state and federal government on trips to Springfield, IL and Washington DC.

*Drafting a new constitution for SWIC's student government, which subsequently passed it.

*Being elected by a group of over 40 other student trustees from around Illinois to the offices of Chair of the Illinois Community College Board - Student Advisory Committee (ICCB-SAC; a statewide committee that serves the Governor) and later the Recording Officer.

*Drafting a 'how-to' manual for new student trustees that ICCB-SAC distributes every year to students from across Illinois on my own initiative.

08/01/2011 - 01/08/2013: Student Worker/Marketing Writer

Spoiler :

My primary duties are:

*Reading through various technical-writing documents in order to translate the inventions they describe into plain English and create marketing 'slicks' (advertisements) to shop these inventions to companies such as Boeing.

*Making graphs and illustrations to accompany the text within the slicks.

*Back-of-the office chores such as filing paperwork and extensive research to find potential contacts within large, disparate and distant corporations.

During my time in this position I:

*Helped Missouri S&T successfully license some of the patents that it or it's researchers hold such as 'Smart Rocks' which helps MoDot monitor bridge scour.

*Put together informational packets used to organize a successful meeting for over 50 regional businesses hosted by my office.

*Filled out databases with contacts that I found through research that helps the staff in my office shop patents to corporations.

05/01/2009 - 05/01/2011: Physics Lab Tech, College Concierge and Math Tutor

Spoiler :

As a Physics Lab Technician, I:

*Worked autonomously putting together experiments and packets of parts for students to use during lessons.

*Maintained and calibrated sensitive laboratory equipment.

*Installed software on lab computers and served as a trouble-shooter for them.

As a College Concierge, I:

*Worked at a desk in the community computer center greeting the public and answering questions.

*Was responsible for keeping things (and people) in order inside the computer center.

*Acted as the public face of the institution.

As a math tutor, I:

*Helped students prepare for tests and work through their homework.

Some of the things I accomplished as a Lab Tech included:

*Cataloging and organizing a haphazard Physics storeroom.

*Made a 'how-to' guide that explained how to put together all of the various experiments for other staff and student workers.

SKILLS

Spoiler :

My skill set includes:

*Public speaking

*Drafting and presenting reports using Microsoft Office products such as Excel, Word and PowerPoint.

*Able to work both alone and in groups, with or without supervision. I am a self-starting and highly motivated individual.

*Proven leadership with successful negotiation and meeting-leading skills as well as being an all-around team player.

*Taking meeting minutes.

*Understanding the complexities surrounding the budgets and government regulations of large institutions.

*Experience lobbying state and federal governments.

*Translating technical writing and parsing patent applications and scientific papers into easy-to-comprehend prose using Microsoft Word, Adobe Acrobat, Paint, Illustrator and Photoshop.

*Ability to use MatLab and Autocad to complete design projects.

*Ability to follow complicated and precise instructions to, for instance, set up lab experiments and sensitive equipment.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

Spoiler :

My work as student trustee helped build my leadership and team-working skills in ways I find useful in group projects or large meetings. It also helped me become an effective communicator; it isn't easy trying to campaign for public office on complex budgetary issues, but I've successfully done it several times for multiple positions.

My work as a student writer in the Office of Technology Transfer and Economic Development at MS&T has given me a solid grounding in technical writing and given me the ability to approach complicated technical subjects with ease in order to understand them.

I am able to thrive under high-stress circumstances; my tenure as Student Trustee was during one of the most challenging budgetary climates SWIC has ever faced. I also held that position while chairing a statewide student trustee position, holding a part-time job and while a full-time student.

I've done my best to trim the fat, get the responsibilities vs accomplishments straightened out and worked on grammar. Is it any better?

(please remember I have no control over the format)

Edit: The resume, as formatted by Boeing, looks even worse that it does as I've presented it here. It's hideous and I'd hate having to go through and read these things.

Edit 2:
Should I go back and add in the jobs I held from 2006-2009? They were resteraunt jobs and only had relevance to the jobs I'm applying for in that they show I can take orders, have mid-level managerial experience at resteraunts and steadily advanced. I am pretty sure I already have more work experience than most other student applying for these interships and co-ops, so are these other jobs necessary to list?

I also held a job between the months of 5/01/2011 and 08/01/2011. It was at Goodwill and had no relevance on the jobs I'm applying for. I don't have anything under accomplishments to put there, it was a summer job. How important is it that I fill in the gap of those months with this work experience if it isn't really relevant?

I greatly appreciate any feedback.

 

[Flying Pig]

A few typographical and grammatical errors:

Projects such as Boeing's CST-100 capsule excite me, as do Boeing's contributions to the International Space Station and the Space Launch System.

Comma needed here.

I hope Boeing is the kind of place that values my hard work and would welcome me into it's ranks.

Belonging to it = its; 'it is' = it's

*Helped pass budgets and set administrative priorities that both satisfied the needs of the nearly 13,000 students while meeting the fiscal responsibilities of the institution.

This is just sloppy editing; you've changed part of the sentance without changing the bit which depends on it.

*Served as head of the Student Government, where it was my job to be the go-between for the student body and the administration of the college.

Comma needed here.

*Helped Missouri S&T successfully license some of the patents that it or it's its researchers hold such as 'Smart Rocks' which helps MoDot monitor bridge scour.

Cataloging and organizing a previously-haphazard Physics storeroom.

Unless you mean that your storeroom was haphazard!

For me, spacecraft, rockets and airplanes are where it's at.

Not wrong per se, but is that tone really appropriate for a resumé?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Thank you for catching all of those errors and for reading through what I posted. I greatly appreciate it!

Edit: I fixed all of those errors and deleted the questionable sentence.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Does anyone think I should include jobs going back to 2006 given the background on them I provided in post 294?

Is my resume still too long or wordy?

 

[dutchfire]

You've got 3 things on the experience thing now, right? I think some more (say, 5, tops) could be good. Make the less important jobs smaller though.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Ok I can do that easily. Thanks dutchfire!

 

[ace99]

I've always been told your resume shouldn't be over a page. If employers want information about all the jobs you've ever had they can ask for a Curriculum Vitae.