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How to get a job (or not)

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Birdjaguar, Nov 6, 2011.

  1. ace99

    ace99 Deity

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    Basically I just need to know what to say without sound churlish. I'm half at war with myself here since I have a thing about talking about $$$, don't do it unless its to commiserate with people who have none.

    So what sounds socially acceptable when it comes to asking for more $$$?

    Can I make reference to past jobs and how much they paid? Competing offers? Glassdoor? The industry standard? My special talents?

    This is the HR person btw, not the partner or the person that interviewed me. Does that change how I should negotiate?
     
  2. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/

    Past jobs - no.

    Otherwise, what you're trying to do is lay out an objective justification of why a certain level of compensation is appropriate. See Getting to YES.
     
  3. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    Thanks. If I do get multiple offers this is what I think I'll do. I had doing it but whatevs.
     
  4. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    negotiating a starting salary can be tricky. Employers usually have a number in mind as to what they want/can afford to pay. Your strategy depends upon ow hard the position is to fill and their need. I have a friend who was recruited by Apple, from Sandia National Labs. Apple created a position for him and he got to write his own ticket.

    If you are the best among a final five, you have less clout. If you are too expensive they can move on to another. Your first step is to establish your minimum. Then what you would like as well as could reasonably expect for the position offered. It helps to ask the company what the range is for the position. Most will tell you something. If you are not working, you might accept a lower number than if you already have a job. Let's assume you are currently making $50,000 and the new job is going to pay $45-65,000 DOE. You might set your minimum at $55,000. When you negotiate you needs to set a starting price you will accept if they do. i always preface my requests with the following:

    "Depending upon complete package, I would expect a salary of $61,000." this does several things. First it ties your salary to a complete package that can include, bonuses, stock, vacation, work schedule, health insurance etc. Would you trade an extra weeks vacation for $1,000? It shows you to be flexible. It gives them something to work with and sets a point to discuss. Once that is said, then you provide written support for why you are worth the $61,000. You match your work record and previous accomplishments to their job requirements. "You asked for this...Here it is. You asked for this...Here it is." etc.

    Does this help?
     
  5. ace99

    ace99 Deity

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    Thanks, somewhat. Should I really saw a minimum though? Why not push them to pitch what their package is and then see what I can work out?

    Also I calculated my commuting costs which will be $3500 or so a year. Should I bring that up?
     
  6. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    No, you shouldn't give a minimum value, let them pitch first.

    Your expenses are completely irrelevant to the job. I don't get paid less than you because I rent a single bedroom walking distance from my office and pay $500/month rent and $0/month car.
     
  7. Old Hippy

    Old Hippy Deity

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    and with the types of positions you are after, the job you actually want, will not be discouraged by saying "I'm working at the moment and will need 2 weeks before I start as I don't want to leave my current employer in a lurch..." it's not as if they will say at the interview can you start tomorrow
     
  8. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    You seem very good at what you do, what with the competition making you better offers, that's why. :lol:
     
  9. ywhtptgtfo

    ywhtptgtfo Emperor

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    I already have a job that I am quite satisfied with and not planning to leave in the foreseeable future, but I am curious about what you guys like and expect from personal websites and portfolio.

    I keep a personal website that's for resume only with some of my work included and I always wonder what I can do to improve it.
     
  10. ace99

    ace99 Deity

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    So I called HR up and spoke to them.

    I dodged the how much are you expecting question, and found that their initial offer was within my minimum range. However I expressed hesitation and they said that they would email me their complete offer with the health benefits. I told them I would take a look at the complete package and get back to them. I asked about bonuses and they told me that they regularly provide them.

    Basically my goal is to get about $6000 more than what they're offering but I might be willing to trade some of it off for paid vacation time and such things.

    Thoughts?
     
  11. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Sounds like you are doing just fine. In negotiations, it is good practice to leave something on the table. You might ask for $3000 more in salary, but a higher upside on the bonus that is worth more than the $3000 you didn't ask for. You could also ask for health care for any family for a year. that might well be worth $6000 in itself. Your commute may be irrelevant, but you could ask for a one year train pass.

    Make list of all the things that have value to you regarding the job, estimate their value and see if they will include them in your package.
     
  12. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus

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    I've heard some people say that it's a good idea to ask for something which is of value to you but doesn't really cost the company - for example, your own parking space, if you have the sort of role which might merit that.
     
  13. ace99

    ace99 Deity

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    I'd be a loon to try to drive in Manhattan. No one is insane enough for that except the Bangladeshi taxi drivers.
     
  14. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    yes, make it easy for them to say yes.

    Exactly. In your situation a train pass would work well.
     
  15. ace99

    ace99 Deity

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    That's a good idea. A year train pass would save me a TON more money than a few extra $$$$$$.
     
  16. ls612

    ls612 Deity Moderator

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    Is it considered a plus or a minus to not have any sort of social network presence? I probably won't be applying for a 'real' job for a while (I'm entering college in the fall), but I don't have any sort of social network accounts (I think for the most part that they are pointless), and am wondering if that will come back to bite me in a few years.
     
  17. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    IMO having a social network presence only gives an employer one more way to find a reason to reject you. As an applicant you want to control as many sources of information as possible so your story is tight and on target. To get a job, you first have to be "not rejected". The only situation that I can see where it might help would be if you were applying to work at a social networking company.
     
  18. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus

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    There are certain social networking sites which relate specifically to work, I think: one of those might help, if only to raise your profile.
     
  19. ls612

    ls612 Deity Moderator

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    Thanks, I suppose something like LinkedIn (or whatever is the most popular business social network in five years) would be the one site that would be useful to have a presence in, and an exception to my general feeling about social networks.
     
  20. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    LinkedIn is a popular site, and I am even there. It may be helpful for networking (depending upon how you use it), but since it is a professional site rather than social, I see both less content and less stuff to get you rejected. What would you have on LinkedIn that would not be part of your job application package? In may case, I have much less on LinkedIn than I include in my resume package.

    Again, as i see it, getting a job is all about controlling the flow of information to the prospective employer to present you in the best possible light and with the most on target qualifications and experience. The less you control that flow of information, the more likely an employer will find a reason to reject you. keep in mind that the job of an HR department is to weed out all those who do not fit. Their goal is a top five which means getting rid of all the rest.
     

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