Is Britain about to leave the EU?

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As noted, Britain is one of the very few euro countries where an actual traditional working class of natives does exist -- and never was minimised crucially, as in other countries following opening borders. So yes, people actually compete with foreigners for low-end working class jobs.
I think this is ultimately positive for Britain, cause having your population just shun any type of work not being white-collar is not a very good idea (although it is one which is understandable; i mean no one actually wants to do heavy work. Moreover, it is not like the reasons for this traditionally strong working class are all positive).
 
Except that risks killing the egalitarian structures of the EU — the one that tends to be denied by Eurosceptics.

This euroskeptic asks: what egalitarian structures? President of the EC: " we won't apply sanctions to France because it is France"? That "egalitarianism"?

Frankly, as far as I can tell, this is now beginning to look increasingly like a revolutionary situation in the UK.

If you think it is just the UK you are still not paying attention. You haven't paid attention to Austria, you're not paying attention to Italy, and you're not paying attention to your own country. Is there anyone left backing the EU out of conviction, for a "better future"? What I am seeing is a defense of the EU that describes it only as a "lesser evil" or a "necessity". You can't hold a status quo only through fear and still allow elections to happen... and you can't end elections in Europe, that is one step too far even for the current ruling class - they're not quite that mad to attempt it.
In any case they're going down - either they will lose more and more elections until the fear that still sustains the EU is revealed as empty, or they're attempt to cross into dictatorship and run unto violent resistance - to find out that no one is willing to die for the EU. It's breaking apart like the USSR did. Economic crisis, legitimacy crisis, breakup.

Wise people will be trying to manage that breakup. Fools will oppose it until the whole thing breaks apart suddenly and power falls into the hands of the most unscrupulous.
 
At the risk of invoking British ire... They have had more EU integration of a certain kind than anyone else — actual large scale labour migration. The EU's extension eastwards was pushed not least by the UK, which saw it as a means of undercutting the trend towards deepening integration of the EU core member states. A large expansion would make that more difficult, and it has. It's just that when a large group of nations with rather lower living standards came in, a lot of individuals made individual decisions about using the free movement of people and labour, and since the UK speaks English, they disproportionally headed there.

And it matters because the UK is still heavily divided by class — the referendum revealed more of it that than might perhaps be entirely recognised? The UK has a wealthy London and south-east, which dominates the country, and large areas of the country done hard by. The UK also has a large low-wage sector with poor job security, where the working class compete with imigrants, and not just from the EU. (The irony is that the EU spends largely on the underprivileged bits of the UK — like Liverpool, where Thatcher's lost in 80's could talk about the need for a "managed decline" of the city, to crush the working class after riots, but where the EU has spent heavily on urban renewal instead.)

I'd say the EU's actual acitvities in the UK have been inoccuous or actually helpful. But the British perception of the EU is totally negative and has been for at least a generation. Even the media that are by British standards EU "friendly" pretty much just stick to not publising bogus claims about the nefarious EU. The reporting is next to 100% negative, or no reporting at all.

Frankly, as far as I can tell, this is now beginning to look increasingly like a revolutionary situation in the UK. It hasn't had that many.

The really serious ones was rather a long time ago. I'm now having run-ins with Brexiters who proudly explain that it's about more and deeper values than the economy, and that the EU just understands the price of everything but the value of nothing. The problem is that this is the complete inversion of what continental revolutionaries (French, German, Russian) have historically accused places like the UK, US, France even, of — of being crass, money-grubbing, old and decrepit, while their alternative (even if it's going to cost) is an inherently superior, more humane order of society (French "mission civilisatrice", "deutsche Kultur").

Right or wrong, the tenor of more British people than I would ever have imagined is sounding downright revolutionary. The Germans are confused — they're used to the British claims of level-headed pragmatism, against the "continentals" in the EU and their supposed high-falutin' idealism. Now there are British histrionics about an abstract form of "soverignity", which was supposedly under threat, but has now supposedly been saved... By comparison, it's "keine Experimente" Merkel's Germany that is increasingly looking like the balancing pragmatic power in Europe — whether it intended to or not. While the UK is off on some increasingly weird tangent.:scan:


Thank you. All this is very true, and I am not at all angry.

There has been some positive reporting in the press of EU assistance with local and
regional projects, but this has all been in the local and regional, not the national, press.

By the way I always took the view that the Thatcherite tactic of encouraging an
expansion of Europe to delay the deepening integration of the EU core member
states, instead of accepting offers of a two speed Europe, was a very dubious tactic.

My apologies.


UK democratic self determination has in my opinion been undermined by two things:
(a) EU centralisation and (b) international corporatism. It is interesting how the
corporates joined forces with EU enthusiasts to urge a Remain vote.

Having bounced the EU side of the pincer last Thursday, the next revolutionary steps in
the UK may be against the corporates. This is one of the reasons why the corporates
are running nervous. And well they should. For example. The UK public pay far more
than £350M a week to the corporates for IPR which, because the corporates can recoup
all their costs by developing products for the USA alone, is pure excess profit.
Yet I have never seen a single article in the press or program on the BBC totalling this
revenue up in aggregate or per UK citizen. Such an omission is enlightening in itself.

The corporates tactic seems to be to help target and destroy Jeremy Corbyn.
This may well succeed, but he would be a martyr; a precursor to revolution.
 
This euroskeptic asks: what egalitarian structures? President of the EC: " we won't apply sanctions to France because it is France"? That "egalitarianism"?



If you think it is just the UK you are still not paying attention. You haven't paid attention to Austria, you're not paying attention to Italy, and you're not paying attention to your own country. Is there anyone left backing the EU out of conviction, for a "better future"? What I am seeing is a defense of the EU that describes it only as a "lesser evil" or a "necessity". You can't hold a status quo only through fear and still allow elections to happen... and you can't end elections in Europe, that is one step too far even for the current ruling class - they're not quite that mad to attempt it.
In any case they're going down - either they will lose more and more elections until the fear that still sustains the EU is revealed as empty, or they're attempt to cross into dictatorship and run unto violent resistance - to find out that no one is willing to die for the EU. It's breaking apart like the USSR did. Economic crisis, legitimacy crisis, breakup.

Wise people will be trying to manage that breakup. Fools will oppose it until the whole thing breaks apart suddenly and power falls into the hands of the most unscrupulous.


^Well, yes. The Eu has stopped even trying to look egalitarian. Has been a powergrab with vassals on the open, at least since 2009-2010. And for the last few years it is beyond nasty.

Which influenced the Leave vote in Britain as well, mind. It is not just some weird British thing. It would never had had this outcome if not for what the Eu has become by now, namely something disastrous for a number of its own old countries.
 
Is there anyone left backing the EU out of conviction, for a "better future"? What I am seeing is a defense of the EU that describes it only as a "lesser evil" or a "necessity".

For the second time, yes there is. And even as a hyperbole this is wrong, active support of the EU in France and Germany (among others) is not negligible (maybe 25% enthusiasts here ? AFAIK there have been no polls on that recently).
 
but you cannot argue that the remain voters are doing the racist incidents and further dividing the UK, it just would not make sense, so the leave voters have to take responsibility for the increased reports of racism for having allowed a campaign based on division

they might not have wanted a racist campaign (I doubt that ) but some certainly believed it as such

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/26/a-sharp-spike-in-racist-incidents-reported-after-the-brexit-vote/


I am NOT arguing that Remain voters are doing racist incidents.

The referendum excited a great many people. I am not surprised there
has been a peak in the ongoing stupidity of frustrated and stupid people.

I had expected the odd punch up and minor riot and I was not very
surprised at the death of J Cox, but it is not clear to me whether
this was because she was pro Remain or pro Syrian refugee or what.

The fact that I voted Leave does not make me responsible for
others' illegal actions.

I will however argue that the EU divided the world into a large
white EU and largely non white rest of the world.

Whereas the Commonwealth is much more racially inclusive.
 

Link to video.

Hm. I agree on the Cameron part (promised the referendum to help him get elected, then takes no responsibility to do as he pledged to do), but the rest Colbert speaks here is rather crap stuff to say. Comedians should not act as trolls for people, let alone of other nations.

Obviously Oliver's show on this was much more nuanced. Yet it can't be posted due to around 400 curse words :)
 
Hm. I agree on the Cameron part (promised the referendum to help him get elected, then takes no responsibility to do as he pledged to do), but the rest Colbert speaks here is rather crap stuff to say. Comedians should not act as trolls for people, let alone of other nations.

Is it though ? The Brits have undoubtedly started a small financial meltdown that may or may not lead to larger economic crisis around the world. We've yelled at the US and GWB for starting the previous crisis, saying that the Brits are irresponsible and stupid (paraphrasing the video here) is pretty mild.
 
British stupidity goes much deeper than the Brexit vote. If you want to know, I think electing a government of Tories in 2010 was a far dumber move than voting for Brexit.
 
We've yelled at the US and GWB for starting the previous crisis, saying that the Brits are irresponsible and stupid (paraphrasing the video here) is pretty mild.
The only things you're supposed to say about their government is ‘hear, hear’ or else just say that you quite agree.
 
How would they know how to say it?
 
I will however argue that the EU divided the world into a large white EU and largely non white rest of the world.

Could you come up with a more useless description of the EU? Even if you're being serious for some reason, how exactly could the EU have avoided that issue?
 
Any major British politicians aside from Corbyn supporting withdrawal from NATO? Could UK withdrawal from EU lead to withdrawal from NATO?

Would the UK consider aligning with Russia?
 
Any major British politicians aside from Corbyn supporting withdrawal from NATO? Could UK withdrawal from EU lead to withdrawal from NATO?

Would the UK consider aligning with Russia?

I'm not sure what the UK and Russia have in common beside being monarchies. If nothing else, UK seems hell bent on some kind of isolationism while Russia is looking outwards with its ambitions.
 
The UK and Russia have the same colours in their flags, both have their football clubs owned by the same group of people… I am sure we can find more coincidences.
 
The fact that I voted Leave does not make me responsible for
others' illegal actions.

.

no, but it puts you in the group that has a sub-set of racists most likely to carry out these outrageous actions and instead of criticising them your trying to shift the blame to the EU for being white, (?) totally ignoring that the problem is right wing populous parties, most of the leave voters were probably nice people that help their locale community, donate to charities to help refugees etc. But they also are part of the group that has a sub-set of outright racists holding banners at the leave campaign rallies and posting hate messages on the internet, desecrating mosques and synagogues yelling abuse at people on busses etc. etc.

Both sides of the Brexit debate need to deal with the problem, have a plan to prevent racism getting out of control, the remain side of politics does, starting with calling it out for what it is and condemning it.
 
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