Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[really]

And does the item below spring from my imagination?

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...crease-military-bundeswehr-cold-war/84245594/

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/defence-forces-to-recruit-1450-personnel-over-two-years-392814.html
And the Irish army is taking one and a half thousand to bring its strength back up.

We might need more if the fortifications at the border return.

 

[AlmostCivilized]

Oh god, on behalf of the Brits I'ld like to apologise to the rest of the EU.

Pourquoi?

 

[GinandTonic]

The absurdity being spewed about the eu from the UK.

 

[Verbose]

Whatever else it is, it is kind of revealing in some ways...

 

[AlmostCivilized]

The absurdity being spewed about the eu from the UK.

There is a lot of absurdity in UK campaigns, and even sincere campaigning has been shallow because it skims the surface of deep complex issues. I'm probably a little more sophisticated than the average voter because I formally studied certain areas of the EU, and I am undecided because neither campaign has given enough information to make an informed decision.

A lot of absurdity is generated in the EU as well. Despite repeated requests, Italy still does not host the HQ of an EU institution and I think Italy is getting a raw deal. If Brexit goes ahead, I can easily imagine Italy having a referendum.

 

[Dachs]

You miss the point, creating a large powerful state dominated by one ethnicity is a recipe for disaster. It provides too powerful a tool for a charismatic leader to be trusted
with. In this respect the Remain campaign's "Stronger-In" is an ominous slogan.

You brought up the greatest shining example of all of Europe's states cooperating to bring down a megalomaniacal dictator...as a reason for Britain to leave Europe. When Britain switched from an antagonistic policy of cynically using European states to further British interests while ignoring their own, to genuinely considering all viewpoints and participating in give-and-take to establish real unity, the alliance was able to pull together and defeat the Emperor. It is possibly the worst example you could have conceivably chosen to try to make your point. I didn't miss your point; your point missed me.

Europe isn't dominated by one ethnicity. Nor is it dominated by a charismatic leader, not that one is likely to show up any time soon.

The Little English fearmongering nonsense ought to have no place in modern politics. There are sound reasons to vote Leave, but this isn't one of them.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

The fact is that only what, 35% of people in the UK voted tory in the UK election. And we now have a majority tory government which amounts to an elected dictatorship for 5 years. But that’s ok? How is that self-determination?

Well we don't have a referendum on reforming the UK voting system do we, but we do have one on being in the EU. A vote to leave the EU is not a declaration that you think the UK voting system is perfectly brilliant. In fact it says nothing about your stance on that at all.

 

[HAND]

Last update on the poll of polls on BBC news site, still shows 45% remain, 44% leave and 11% undecided.

 

[Arakhor]

Do you know what the definition of a moderate German is?

Let me guess: your answer has something to do with the war, seventy years later, because some people simply cannot shut up about it.

 

[hoplitejoe]

He was already talking about a "second referendum" a month ago before the polls turned his way. I think that it's still far too close to reliably predict, though.

Most polls show remain in the lead, to have a good chance I think leave needed a lead of at least 2%. I really think remain has it at this point, but don't want egg on my face along side no job opportunities if we vote out.

Polls can be wrong though, as we saw last election.

 

[AlmostCivilized]

Quick reminder of key issues leading up to today's big referendum:

Flash points in recent years include UK paying the EU an extra £1.7bn in 2014, and this has been spun as positive reflection of economic "growth". However, the growth figure reflects changes in GDP calculations following EU demands that the UK estimate and add the economic value of tax-evading grey-markets.

Iconic changes

•Getting an opt-out for Britain from the EU’s founding principle of “ever closer union”. This is intended to ensure the UK is never forced to join a new European superstate

The euro

•Explicitly writing into the European treaties that the EU is a multi-currency union, deleting references to the euro as the EU’s official currency

Practical changes

•Repatriating powers from Brussels to Britain, giving Parliament more autonomy and scaling back the influence of EU law on domestic affairs. Detailed work is already under way on this and European officials are understood to be considering calls for a so-called “red card” system to allow parliaments to block new EU directives

Major structural reforms

•To prevent the Eurozone countries forcing new rules on the nine other member states including Britain that are not in the single currency. Work has begun in Paris and Germany on drafting new arrangements that would guarantee protections for the City of London

We always expect to compromise in negotiations, but we don't always expect..



Angela Markel reacted by telling the media she refuses to tamper with free movement, and the EU reacted by threatening to retract an agreement in which the EU will not use UK contributions to bail-out Greece. Cameron did most of compromising and came away with: ".. with exception of the United Kingdom" added to a few treaty clauses, and an agreement that migrants will wait 4 years before claiming benefits.

Currency and Structural Reform have not been addressed. These are closely linked because the European Commission clearly states that its priorities are monetary, fiscal and financial union. In the current EU roadmap, structural reform and democratic accountability come later, and the UK would prefer these come first. It is feared that internal EU pressure to move forward on economic integration could result in non-Euro members being bullied, and I think these topics should have been central in the campaigning but too late now!

Is everyone ready to vote?

 

[Arakhor]

I've been ready to vote ever since they announced the damn horse-and-cart show.

 

[innonimatu]

Germany has cut its troops down to a pathetic level over the last few decades.

Germany is certainly not going to be a military threat by itself. No, the path towards militarism in Europe can only go through an European Federation. The smaller individual countries would not dare launch any big war. That is part of what I like about europe being a continent of many relatively small nation states. European countries in a loose alliance are more than strong enough to defend themselves now, without putting a burden on the population with foolish imperial projects. But united as a single state the future leaders of that state will get ambitious. That is one of the reasons why I don't want a future where there is one big european super-state looking to get its "place in the sun" in a new world order.

Fortunate the EU is so dysfunctional already that the ambitions which do exist of creating an european army and carrying on the "common foreign policy" (already in the treaty!) stand little chance of being applied. As usual the "fathers of the EU" bit more than they could chew. They want it though: the whole rationale behind the goal of ever-tighter integration is a big single state that can be a world power, with everything that implies.

 

[Thedrin]

I'm going out to vote now. The rain's the heaviest I've seen in East London since I moved here 10 months ago.

 

[Mega Tsunami]

It's sunny here in Cumbria.

This is so hard to decide. Never have I remotely had such a hard political decision to make. My problem is I want it all – the return of a significant amount of sovereignty with the continuation of free(ish) trade and free(ish) movement of people. And I would like us still to be a good neighbour with Europe, co-operating in all things of a security/defence nature. I don’t want to destroy the EU, I want the Eurozone to head towards ‘closer union’ with us an ‘associate member’.

As Suzanne Moore quoted in yesterday’s Guardian – “I used to be indecisive, but now I am not quite sure.”
But also, like her, I will decide in the quiet of the polling booth.

One thing I am convinced of – Britain will be just fine no matter what the result.



Most latest polls are showing ‘statistical dead heats’ but this in the Mail is very much for Remain. I believe the majority of undecideds will vote Remain too.





http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-final-survey-finds-Leave-45-Remain-44.html

PS You don’t suppose this is a rigged poll by the Mail, trying to make as many Remainers think – “I’ll not bother to go out and vote as we have already won it”. Shurely not!

 

[Agent327]

Happy voting all.

I'm going out to vote now. The rain's the heaviest I've seen in East London since I moved here 10 months ago.

Oh dear.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Germany is certainly not going to be a military threat by itself. No, the path towards militarism in Europe can only go through an European Federation. The smaller individual countries would not dare launch any big war. That is part of what I like about europe being a continent of many relatively small nation states. European countries in a loose alliance are more than strong enough to defend themselves now, without putting a burden on the population with foolish imperial projects. But united as a single state the future leaders of that state will get ambitious. That is one of the reasons why I don't want a future where there is one big european super-state looking to get its "place in the sun" in a new world order.

Fortunate the EU is so dysfunctional already that the ambitions which do exist of creating an european army and carrying on the "common foreign policy" (already in the treaty!) stand little chance of being applied. As usual the "fathers of the EU" bit more than they could chew. They want it though: the whole rationale behind the goal of ever-tighter integration is a big single state that can be a world power, with everything that implies.

I already called it the War of pay DEBTS !
In which certain countries will experience a Blitzkrieg (again) and be made to pay debts. Which Germany is very very insistent on being paying.

I doubt EU has any appetite for war, Even the Germans declined to get involved in the Iraq war and you know how much the Germanic are like starting wars. And for once good foresight as the EU has plenty of internal problems without adding in stupid military adventures everywhere. The last thing we want is Germany getting a taste for war and becoming addicted.

 

[Arakhor]

Most latest polls are showing ‘statistical dead heats’ but this in the Mail is very much for Remain. I believe the majority of undecideds will vote Remain too.

I presume that the Mail is attempting to encourage its readership to go out and vote, rather than thinking the campaign is won. Then again, the papers have sometimes been as bad as the politicians for outright scaremongering.

 

[HAND]

The gold price has fallen a bit after last nights polls and the FTSE 100 has been rising most of the day, so far up 1% at the moment.

I've seen some predict a 5% margin win for Remain.. only time will tell. I'm thinking 3-5% margin win for Remain personally.

 

[Arakhor]

The journalist Suzanne Moore, writing in The Guardian, said that she was forced out of the Leave camp by the likes of UKIP and their shameless recent poster and feels that simply abstaining from voting would be a great disservice in light of the death of Jo Cox. Of course, that's only one view in a largely liberal newspaper, but I doubt it's unique.