LK164 - CCM, AWM, Korea

[LKendter]

I was going to suggest we start building towns near Seoul.

I still don't want to push very far that direction. 20 moves from now we can talk about another city in that area. Every move south increases the risk of another contact.

My spot would have be 1 se of yours next to the mountain 5 tiles sw of Seoul.

If next to the mountain please make sure we get defensive units on the mountain before building the city. I don't want that to be an AI staging zone that would be brutal to kill units on.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Good point about the mountain. For either spot, defending the mountain will be a priority.

 

[Greebley]

I think walls are going to expire very soon? It is the tech past ballistics and a new building will be needed. That is one reason I was not building them.

 

[Jersey Joe]

You are correct Greebley, Bastion Fortifications will make walls obsolete. However, if building learning centers works, it will be at least 12 turns before we start to research it.
Ideally research will be Naval Guns => Jurisprudence => Exploration => Bastion Fortifications => Absolutism => Sacred Art. Each tech being researched in 4 turns.
Right now I can research Sacred Art in 4 turns and positive cash flow, Bastion Fortifications and Naval Guns in 4 turns with many scientists and negative cash flow.
Right now (I am just starting Naval Guns) I would have to hire at least 25 - 30 more scientists to do Jurisprudence in 4 turns and that is without taking into account the research lost when laborers are changed into scientists.

Four (4) turns from now, if I cannot research Jurisprudence or Exploation in 4 turns, we will have to take a decision do I do 4 turn research of Sacred Art, 4 turn research of Bastion Fortifications or 5 research of Jurisprdence?

 

[LKendter]

IMO 4 turn tech is the #1 priority. Stay on the cheap path.

 

[Elephantium]

Agreed. We need 4-turn research to catch up.

During my set, I didn't have any trouble with defenders being too strong for Knights. When that starts to change, we might need to push more aggressively for Hussars -- but I'm not worried for now.

 

[LKendter]

Are hussars the unit that comes with military tradition? That is the tech that kills castles, and I want to avoid that as long as possible.

 

[Civinator]

Are hussars the unit that comes with military tradition? That is the tech that kills castles, and I want to avoid that as long as possible.

Hussars come with tech Absolutism.

 

[Elephantium]

Are hussars the unit that comes with military tradition? That is the tech that kills castles, and I want to avoid that as long as possible.

Agreed! I won't make the same mistake in this game.

We should have Democracy, Economics, Steam Power, and Naval Power before we research Military Tradition.

Edit: Shoutout to Enlightenment as the tech that gives us Cavs.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Thanks to Wawel Castle, we also have Polish Winged Hussars.

I wondered if out cost to research Naval Guns was going to increase. (The base cost to research a tech is reduced by the number of civilizations we know the have already researched that tech.)

The screenshot shows we will research Naval Guns in 3 turns. Before I destroyed the Strong Poles it was 2 turns. The Poles had knowledge of Naval Guns and our cost to research Naval Guns was recalculated as soon as I destroyed the Poles. (It went up by 77 beakers).

Good news, with the Poles destroyed we do not need clowns to keep the annexed Polish towns happy. By converting the clowns in Gniezno and Poznan to Scientists Naval Guns is back on schedule to be completed in 2 turns.

 

[LKendter]

Why do I see 2 different border colors? I don't think purple was the color I saw for Spain.
Are we about to meet someone?

Is that a leader above Lvov?

 

[Jersey Joe]

The Border is India. Knight killed a Ratha and we got a leader. The Leader is OTW to Warsaw to rush a University.

 

[LKendter]

I just looked at that picture more. Is that an exploring unit on the other side of the mountains? If so, please recall ASAP. I don't want to find who is across those mountain. More so now with meeting India.
Nothing would piss me off more that reading a report that we made contact with the civ across the moutains.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Continuing 1834 AD:
Knight kills Persian Crossbow (1, 0).
Wawel Castle has the same properties as a normal castle, Gniezno is switched from building a castle to Administrative Center.

IBT: Defending Mountain River: Muskteer kills German Pistolreiter (2, 0).

1836 AD:
Clearing out the rift raft near our next town: eHwach’a kills Persian Crossbow (3, 0); eKnight kills Medieval Infantry (6, 0).
Near Opole: eEnslavers capture 2 Viking Pikes (8, 0). Knight kills Spanish Late Pike (9, 0); Knight kills Crossbow (10, 0).

IBT: Near Opole, Pikeman kills Viking Pike (11, 0).
We learn the secrets of Printing. We hire 24 Scientists and are at -16 gpt for research. The price to get Naval Guns in 4 turns. As learning centers get built we should go positive in cash flow. Ultimately I hope 4 turns from now, we can research Jurisprudence in 4 turns (it is at 6 right now).

1838 AD:
Annexing Poznan: eCataphract kills Polish Musketman (12, 0); Knight kills Late Pike (13, 0); eYogi kills Pike (14, 0). The city is captured. Hwach’a kills Viking Bombard (15, 0); Hwach’a kills Medieval Infantry (16, 0).
I spot a border that has a deeper purple color than ours southwest of Poznan. Likely, a new enemy. However, I am not going to cross the border to find out.

IBT: Southeast of Poznan in Polish Territory: We lose a Knight and an Enslaver to Viking Camel Musketeers (16, 2). Hwach’a killed by Spanish Hussar (16, 3).

1840 AD:
eHwach’a kills Spanish Hussar (17, 3). eChariot kills Polish Pike (18, 3) and we annex L’vov to our benevolent Monarchy.
eKnights kill 2 Viking Camel Musketeers (20, 3). eHorseman kills Polish Crossbow (21, 3). eYogi converts Spanish Conquistador (22, 3); eKnight kills Conquistador (23, 3). Knight kills Late Pike (24, 3); Knight kills Late Pike (25, 3); eEnslaver kills Crossbow (26, 3).

L’vov gets culture, its borders expand and we expose an Indian Ratha that was in the fog. India will not surrender its 12 cities to us, They leave us no choice but to Declare War.
Crossbow killed by Viking Late Pike (26, 4); Knight kills Late Pike (27, 4).

We are back with a positive cash flow of +1gpt.

IBT: Knight killed by Viking Hospitaller Knight (27, 5).

1842 AD:
eKnight kills Indian Ratha (28, 5). We get a Great Leader.

Capture of Kalisz: Knight kills Polish Musketman (28, 5); Knight kills Late Pike (29, 5). The city is added to out benevolent Monarchy.

Good news is that with the Poles destroyed we do not need clowns to keep them happy. By converting the clowns in Gniezno and Poznan to scientists Naval Guns is back on schedule to be completed in 2 turns.

Southwest of Kalisz: Hwach’a kills Spanish Late Pike (30, 5). Yogi converts Viking Hospitaller Knight (31, 5).
Southwest of L’vov: Hwach’a kills Viking Late Pike (30, 5); Knight kills Crossbow (31, 5).

1844 AD:
Great Leader rushes University at Warsaw.
At Bengal, Yogi kills Indian Spear (32, 5).

South of Kalisz: Knight kills Viking Crossbow (33, 5).

IBT: We learn about Naval Guns. Jurisprudence will still take 5 turns, but Exploration can been done in 4 (at negative cash flow). We begin to learn how to explore.

1846 AD:
South of Kalisz: Knight kills Viking Axeman (34, 5).
Annexing Bengal: Knight killed by Indian Late Pike (34, 6); Knight kills Late Pike (35, 6); eYogi kills Spearman (37, 6). Bengal is captured.
South of Kalisz: Knight kills Viking Hospitaller Knight (38, 6).

IBT: Southwest of Kalisz, Knight kills 2 Spanish Knights, then Knight is killed by Crossbow (40, 7).

1848 AD:
Southwest of Kalis: eEnslaver captures Spanish Crossbow (40, 7); eHwach’a kills Viking Crossbow (41, 7); Knight kills Late Pike (42, 7).
At L’vov: eKnight kills Spanish Hussar (43, 7). eChariot killed by Viking Musketman (43, 8); Silla Horseman kills Musketman (44, 8).At Bengal: eKnight kills Indian Ratha (45, 8). Knight kills Viking Hospitaller Knight (46, 8); Knight kills Nordic Axeman (47, 8).

IBT: Knight killed by Spanish Hussar (47,9).

1850 AD:
Near Karlskrona: Knight kills Viking Camel Musketeer (48, 9).
By Bengal, Knight kills Viking Crossbow (49, 9).
By Linkoping: eHwach’a kills Spanish Hussar (50, 9). Knight kills Viking Late Pike (50, 9).At Sariwon mountain: Knight kills Persian Crossbow (51, 9); Knight kills Ansar Warrior (52, 9). eHwacha’a kills German Musketman (53, 9) and get a Great Leader. Great Leader will rush University in Wonsan next turn.

Knight kills Persian Ansar Warrior (54, 9); Cuirassier kills German Medieval Infantry (55, 9).
Near Wroclaw: Cuirassier kill 3 Aztec Tlecuahuitl (57, 9); Cuirassier kills Medieval Infantry (58, 9); Cuirassier kill 2 Crossbow (60, 9); Knights kill 2 Crossbows (62, 9).

IBT: Near Linkoping: Enslaver captures German Crossbow (63, 9); Hwach’a killed by Nordic Axeman (63, 10).
Near Karlskrona, Knight killed by Spanish Crossbow (63, 11).

Someone stole our Military Plans. Guess they found out our Plan is to destroy them.

1852 AD:
Great Leader rushes University in Wonsan.
Seoul starts prebuild (Bank) for Supreme Court.

Siege of Linkoping: Knight kills German Musketman (64, 11); Knight killed by Musketman (64, 12); Knight kills Musketman (65, 12); Knight kills Musketman (66, 12). The city is added to our benevolent Monarchy.
Knight of the Realm kills Nordic Axeman (67, 12); Knight kills Crossbow (68, 12). Knight kills Spanish Crossbow (69, 12).

Siege of Karlskrona: Hwach’a kills Viking Musketman (70, 12); Hwach’a killed by Musketman (70, 13); eKnight kills Musketman (71, 13). The town is added to our benevolent Monarchy.
eKnight kills Musketman (72, 13). Knight kills Spanish Late Pike (73, 13).

IBT: By Visby: Knight kills German Crossbow (74, 13); Knight killed by Bombard (74, 14).

We learn about Exploring and begin the study of Jurisprudence (due in 4 turns and positive cash flow )

1854 AD:
Near Karlskrona, Knight kills German Bombard (75, 14).
Near Linkoping: Knight killed by German Medieval Infantry (75, 15); Knight of the Realm kills Medieval Infantry (76, 15); Knights kill 2 Crossbows (78, 15); Knight kills Camel Musketeer (79, 15).

Defending Seoul’s bonus grass tiles: Cuirassier kills Persian Crossbowman (80, 15); Knight kills Persian Crossbowman (81, 15).
Defending Sariwon’s mountain: Hwach’a kills Prussian Cannon (82, 15); Cuirassier kills Bombard (83, 15).

Victory Screen: 10% world area 18% world population

Notes:

• When we learn Jurisprudence look at the big picture and switch Seoul to Supreme Court.
• After learning Jurisprudence, I would not lower the number of Scientists we have. While that number might not be necessary to learn Bastion Fortifications in 4 turns (drop the research rate and get more gold), they will be needed to learn Absolutism in 4 turn
  • This should not be necessary, but if Absolutism is due in 5 turns fire enough engineers in Seoul, West Coast, and Napata and hire Scientists to get to 4 turns.
• After Seoul builds the Supreme Court consider keeping the engineers employed and building a Bank there (due in 4 turns) in the long run it will be more helpful than an extra 2 Musketeer
  • When the bank is done the engineers should be converted into scientists.
• The lone slave standing between Kadesh and Casablanca is meant to join the group on 9 workers (1 Asian worker and 8 slaves) irrigating a tile in Casablanca’s fat cross by the sea. That slave will enable them to do 1 turn irrigation.
• Just a suggestion, the crew building a mine on Sariwon’s mountain will finish this turn. Next up should be to mine the forest for Hyangsan (It may speed up the University by 1 turn).
• I built the Jolly Rodger in Namp’o. I figure once every 8 turns we will get to shot back. If extremely very very lucky we can capture the entire Persian fleet that is there.

• Beware, the Aztec are near our eastern border between Wroclaw and Krakow.
  • There is a roading crew 1 north of Krakow. There next job should be to move 3 tiles south to the hill that the lone Enslaver is standing on and build a road there.
  • There are mounted troops healing by Wroclaw.
  Spoiler Our Empires Core 1854 Ad :

  

Spoiler The Viking Front 1854 AD :

 

[LKendter]

What happened to the muskets moving toward West Coast? My plans to upgrade city defense seems to have died.

My wish came true, and Joe got to kill Poland.

It is weird where the Aztecs are coming at us now. That area will be an ugly fighting zone. There are too many hills to deal with.

As I suspected, the Scandinavians are the next civ to show cities. With India known, I don’t know if India of Spain will be next.


ROSTER:
Multiple civs are probably south of Seoul. Please don’t explore that direction.

Unless it is a critical emergency please don’t use up any cash. Deficit funded research is desperately needed to try and close the tech gap. In addition, it is time to build up the cash reserves to steal tech.

LKendter
Jersey Joe
Elephantium (up)
Greebley (on deck)

 

[Elephantium]

Nice progress. Good to see Poland taken care of.

I've got it. I'll send a couple of Muskets to West Coast.

 

[Greebley]

It is possible the Aztec got pulled south by another war which ended so they are now coming at us.

There are only a few squares over the mountains so we may be able to defend on hills for good odds. I would think the Aztecs are heading for the hill square the Enslaver is currently on (near Krakow) so road that and get defenders on it. We do not look ready and want to attack off the hill into clear rather than the enemy manning the hill.

 

[Jersey Joe]

<snip> ... Aztec <snip> ... are only a few squares over the mountains so we may be able to defend on hills for good odds. I would think the Aztecs are heading for the hill square the Enslaver is currently on (near Krakow) so road that and get defenders on it. We do not look ready and want to attack off the hill into clear rather than the enemy manning the hill.

We should be ready by the end of next turn, with one exception. After building the road to the hill the work gang should build a road on the mountain northeast of the hill.
Attacking from the mountain will mean our troops do not have to attack over water.

After that maybe build a fortification and barrier on both the hill and the mountain, except that group of workers may be needed elsewhere.

 

[Jersey Joe]

When we learn Absolutism, we can build the Great Palace.
I think we should build it in SK Hynix, our best production city without a permanent barracks.
The best we could do for a prebuild is put 150 shields into the Great Religious Center.

I'll send a couple of Muskets to West Coast.

Lee is talking about upgrading all the cities on the western coast, not just the city West Coast. Leptis Magna completes an Observatory this turn. It is close to the western coast so the musketeers only have to walk for a few decades to reach the cities on the western coast. You could send the replaced troops back to Leptis Magna to be disbanded to produce a musketeer in 1 turn not 2, or disbanded the replaced troops in the city they are in if it speeds up that build.

 

[Elephantium]

Pre-turn:

Switch SK Hynix to AM
MM various cities, encouraging growth. I'm careful to keep Jurisprudence due in 4.

IBT:

We lose 2 Kts near Linkoping 0-2
Viking amphibious assault fails at Karlskrona 1-2
Military plans stolen.

1856 AD:

Knight dies to Prussian Hussar 1-3
Knight kills it 2-3
Eastern Cuirassier (EC) dies to Viking Spear 2-4
MDI dies to Musketman 2-5
eMDI kills it 3-5
Yogi converts XB 4-6
Enslaver narrowly dies to XB 4-7
Knight kills it 5-7

IBT:

Lots of bombardments.
I don't get a white screen - but when I alt-tabbed, Civ stopped animating. I just got a blue circle for a while, then the build queue.
Looks like I missed a couple of attacks on the Viking front. There's a wounded Hospitaller Knight near our stack, and I think it's down a Knight. 5-9 or so

1858 AD:

Battle of Visby:
Knight retreats
EC kills Swedish Musketman 6-9
Knight kills Swedish Musketman 7-9
Knight narrowly kills Axe and takes the city. That was too close. 8-9

Knight kills wounded Prussian Hussar 9-9
Falun - Knight dies 9-10. We need reinforcements.

Near Seoul...
Knight retreats
EC kills MDI 10-10
MDI dies 10-11
Knight kills Eastern Musketeer 11-11
Knight retreats
EC kills Eastern Musketeer 12-11
Enslaver captures XB 13-11

Knight kills Hospitaller Knight 14-11
Silla Horseman kills XB 15-11
EC kills XB 16-11

MDI narrowly kills Eastern Musketeer! 17-11

Winged Hussar kills XB 18-11
Knight dies to Musket 18-12
Second Knight kills it 19-12
Knight of the Realm kills Indian Siege XB 20-12
Knight kills XB 21-12

IBT:

Vikings land XB near Karlskrona
Near Visby...
Ratha kills EC 21-13
Ratha dies on Winged Hussar 22-13
WE kills Winged Hussar 22-14
The Aztecs lose interest and mostly disappear into the fog.
Treb dies to Asian Cataphract 23-14
Heavy Arty kills Knight 23-15

1860 AD:

Yogi kills Viking XB 24-15
He spotted an Enslaver, who we manage to enslave 25-15
Knight kills Heavy Arty 26-15
EC kills Ratha 27-15
EC kills Axe 28-15
EC narrowly kills WE 29-15

Near Seoul:
Knight dies to Asian Musketeer 29-16
Knight kills Asian Musketeer 30-16
eKnight narrowly dies to Eastern Cannon 30-17
rKnight kills it 31-17
Knight kills Persian Musket 32-17