Morality of Financial Domination
- Thread starter Commodore
- Start date
classical_hero
In whom I trust
Nice one.
Senethro
Overlord
Could you please stop being a bad employer? Pay your employee a fair wage and dont presume to tell her how to spend that or her free time for that matter.
@ warpus & classical hero: Or from any other era in history when women weren't allowed to own property (not even their own clothing), and having an opinion could get them burned as a witch.
This. Handling finances/bills/taxes etc is stressful and some people don't want to do it. I know of plenty relationships/marriages where the person making the most money doesn't want the stress of dealing with the finances. They just want to go to work, spend what they want to spend and let the other person "make it work" finance-wise. Or they are happy with an "allowance" or "spending-limit" that the other person sets to keep finances under control... again regardless of whether they are the one who makes most (or all) of the money.
As has already been pointed out, "morality" is not really the issue here. I think what you are really seeking is either approval of your actions, or an objective assessment of whether you are being "just" and/or "fair." So I will put the issue of whether you are being a "loving" or "good" or "moral" husband aside and just focus on what I think is your real question. That being said...
All these people telling you to "just divorce" your wife are way off base. You have a relationship dynamic that suits you, and obviously suits your wife. Clearly there are things that you don't like and things that she doesn't like but that is life. No relationship is perfect. Why would you divorce her? What possible benefit is there to you in that?
The only relevant issue is whether the relationship dynamic is suitable to the two of you. Once you or anyone else starts imposing other people's standards on your relationship you are always going to risk that "grass-is-greener" effect. That is why conservative Muslim, Mennonite, etc, wives are restricted in their movements and personal associations. Too much contact with other people creates too much risk that they will start comparing themselves to others and covet what other people have.
Don't focus on trying to convince anyone that your way is right, just focus on whether you are happy with the arrangement. I will say that the fact that you are seeking approval suggests that you have some misgivings about it. So what are those?
For example, not to read too deeply into things, but my first impression was that in such a clear bills-for-homemaking arrangement, trust, fidelity, loyalty, obligations seem a little nebulous. You mentioned she wants you to make more money because she wants more stuff. So have your obligations increased in her mind? Why? Does she feel like her obligations have increased while yours have remained constant? Are there more things for her to do than when you got married? More children, etc? If you fail to increase her "allowance" is she entitled to go out and make some kind of alternative arrangement to fulfill her needs?
In any case I've talked too long... I need to go do some more work now (to make more money
).
If it suited him 100%, he wouldn't have made this thread. He certainly wouldn't be talking about dirty tricks to deprive her of custody or even a decent lawyer.
Yeah, can't have women talking to other people, can they?
And of course the men never covet what other people have... 
What? No they aren't.
edited
Berzerker
Deity
I remember the same complaint from a few men from other countries, in the ME, Africa and Asia as I recall. They watched their wives, girlfriends and daughters become less submissive as they were "americanized" by the culture and other women.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
The myth of witch burning lives on. The Salem witch trials was basically small town vigilant justice, rather than true just. Only once the trials moved to Boston did justice get served and no woman got convicted. In fact for much of history just to survive both the husband and wife had to work just to support their family. It is only because of the wealth of modern times that women didn't have to work and could stay at home if they chose to, but before the industrial revolution it was a case of work or die.
Tahuti
Writing Deity
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 9,492
Capitalism, the welfare system (which is actually a major aspect of Capitalism as well) and free trade are the strongest coduits for feminism in the West. Men and women are of roughly the same intelligence, though men have an edge in physical strength. In times when physically demanding work was common, societies were male centric. As work becomes less physically demanding due to outsourcing, some men will lose out against women in professional settings and men have less of an edge.
It's no surprise that some of the most male-dominated countries are agrarian or industrial in nature, as opposed to service oriented.
I wouldn't do that to my daughter unless she were being completely irresponsible with her life. For example: If it has been at least a few years after she graduates college and she still has no job and is living with me. If she is actively looking for a job it wouldn't be a problem, but if she is just sitting around not even trying then I would give her the option of either maintaining the household or joining the military as a means of getting her life on track.
I don't see that being an issue though. She's only three and already does chores around the house and really loves helping out so I can see she already has a strong work ethic. And before you say anything about making a 3-year-old do chores, it was actually my wife that got that started as I am of the philosophy of letting kids be kids and enjoy their childhood.
Right now, sure. But the post you are responding to with this statement was written under the assumption that I eventually cave to her wishes. If I did that, then I would be both the financial provider and the one doing all the housework. If that were to occur, she would pretty much be a useless lump who is just spending all the money. That is a situation I absolutely refuse to allow. I am not going to completely take care of a fully-grown, able-bodied adult so they can just sit around and do whatever they please all day
True, but she isn't willing to let it go that far. When she was a kid, her parents lost their house to foreclosure and they were homeless for a while until a friend took them in. Because of that she has a pretty deep fear of anything that would cause her to lose her home again.
Which is why I think the current arrangement is fair. As it stands, we both roughly get half of the money I bring in and we both benefit equally from the work she does around the house. Giving in to her demands now, would create an imbalance that creates a greater benefit for her.
My wife has repeatedly stated if we end up getting divorced she would take our daughter and move back in with her parents. Now, she has a father and an uncle that are sex offenders and their offenses are related to sexual misconduct with minors. So my wife has pretty much admitted to me that she would willingly put her daughter in the same house with a sex offender and just a few miles away from another one that would have access to her. If the court doesn't see that as being an unfit parent, well...then I seriously doubt the judgment of that court.
The child support order would still be there in the event that she gets a job or remarries. So once she gets any kind of income coming in she will have to start paying. And if she intentionally avoids making any money to avoid paying child support, well then that makes her a deadbeat mom not fit for custody in the eyes of the court in case she ever tries to challenge my custody.
Well, if I do end up having to divulge the existence of this account, I wouldn't want her lawyer to know exactly what to look for in the accounts, now would I?
Years' worth of whatever the American equivalent is of child tax benefits and subsidies, plus unpaid chores (after all, she gets food, clothing, shelter, and medical care; why give her an allowance for those chores?). I don't know how old she is, but typically a girl's first job is babysitting. Will you demand she turn over her money to you after every babysitting job since only you can be trusted with it?
Are you referring to my wife or daughter here? In either case, no I would not try to take whatever money either one of them make. In fact, I have always told my wife that if she ever does get a job, then I don't care what she does with her money as long as she makes a fair contribution towards the bills. The same would go for my daughter, with exception to the contribution to the bills part. That wouldn't kick in until she is an adult and only of she is still living at home.
Housework is work.
Agreed, but it doesn't really pay the bills now does it? If we didn't have any money, the landlord isn't going to care how spotless my wife keeps the apartment; if we can't pay the rent then we are out.
She's not stupid, but she's not exactly the resourceful type either. Couple that with the fact that she is not technically-inclined at all and I go to great lengths to hide my presence online and the chances are pretty slim that she would be able to find all of my online activity. I also make her think that I can't hide anything from her by letting her catch me in a few minor lies. That makes her confident that she knows everything I'm up to and dissuades her from prying any further into my activities.
I agree. Jointly held assets are a stupid idea that only gives the other person leverage over you. That is why I do maintain my own bank account. She knows about it, but has no access to it at all and all of my money gets deposited into it. We have a joint account as well and I transfer all the bill money plus a little extra from my personal account. There have been times where she has told me she wants her own account and I told her she is absolutely free to do so, but she has to do it with her own money.
The way it works is she usually tells me how much she would like for the day and tells me what she needs it for. If we have the money available I usually give it to her without further questioning. Although I never give it to her in cash, I just transfer it to the joint account so she uses the debit card and I can see that she is actually spending the money on what she says she is going to spend it on. I do keep her appraised of our current financial situation in terms of what all of our monthly bills are and how much is owed, as well as how much money we still have available for the month. If I make a major purchase, I'll tell her about it (with major being defined as anything over $50); minor ones I won't. I do ask for her opinion on major financial decisions, she just doesn't have any actual decision-making authority when it comes to money.
As an aside: I do find it a bit odd that you seem so certain as to what constitutes a "real loving husband" when you have never been married yourself. If you've never been married all you have to go on are theories and anecdotes since you have never experienced the realities of being married to another person. It just seems to me you are taking what you believe constitutes a loving husband and trying to pass that off as objective fact.
Lohrenswald
世界的 bottom ranked physicist
It seems to me like the very opposite of your stance is the actual issue. No, I don't think this is okay. And I dissagree with your deal with your wife.
Borachio
Way past lunacy
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 26,698
I have some sympathy for you, Mr Commodore.
But it's a rather strange set of circumstances. Well, on second thoughts, maybe it's not so unusual at all. And maybe your wife is just seeing what she can get away with. I don't like the sound of her, tbh. She seems to be rather selfish and manipulative. But what's her side of it all?
But it's a rather strange set of circumstances. Well, on second thoughts, maybe it's not so unusual at all. And maybe your wife is just seeing what she can get away with. I don't like the sound of her, tbh. She seems to be rather selfish and manipulative. But what's her side of it all?
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
The more you talk about her, the more it sounds like your wife is just a roommate, somebody you share the house with, but aren't in a romantic partnership with.
Loppan Torkel
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2004
- Messages
- 4,756
Link to video.
I won't judge this marriage. Probably good to prepare for some eventualities if the outlooks are bleak. The question about the morality of things - they may seem worse than they are because you analyse them and put them on print. You're probably just as bad both of you.
Well, the honeymoon period is over as Borachio points out, but there are still a fair amount of romantic moments we share. We usually do something romantic every Friday since our daughter spends the night with my parents every Friday night. Now that the weather is getting nicer we are going to resume our little hikes through the woods around here as well. There's also a good bit of cuddle time on the couch at night when we are watching our shows.
So we definitely aren't super-passionate about each other anymore, but the love is still there.
Kozmos
Jew Detective
You also have to factor in the cost of sex and 'the girlfriend experience'. That ain't cheap yo.
