NES/IOT Merger Poll

[erez87]

About the merger all I can say is Bah. I was under the impression the Frontiersmen were a majority of NESers, and I noticed most voted against the merge, and yet it passed, with a majority of NESers too... How could I have been so fooled?!

Anyway, I hope all of IOT will see the greatness of NES once we are all one and join NESes!

 

[Ailedhoo]

...then Tails arrives and brings forth Iron and Blood X, causing all to gorge in harmony.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

About the merger all I can say is Bah. I was under the impression the Frontiersmen were a majority of NESers, and I noticed most voted against the merge, and yet it passed, with a majority of NESers too... How could I have been so fooled?!

Anyway, I hope all of IOT will see the greatness of NES once we are all one and join NESes!

@erez: Remember, NESers fought moving from Civ3 Stories and Tales once upon a time, and I doubt there's anyone now who'd say that was a bad idea. Change in the past has been good for NESing, and I believe this will be too.

 

[erez87]

I believe it won't, but I guess we wait and see

 

[Luckymoose]

About the merger all I can say is Bah. I was under the impression the Frontiersmen were a majority of NESers, and I noticed most voted against the merge, and yet it passed, with a majority of NESers too... How could I have been so fooled?!

Anyway, I hope all of IOT will see the greatness of NES once we are all one and join NESes!

Frontier people didn't leave the community, nor did they vote against a merger. You're one of the only people voting against the merger outright. Most of us are voting against the specifics and the staff, and to protect our hobby.

 

[North King]

@erez: Remember, NESers fought moving from Civ3 Stories and Tales once upon a time, and I doubt there's anyone now who'd say that was a bad idea. Change in the past has been good for NESing, and I believe this will be too.

This statement is utterly absurd. "Change in the past has been good for NESing"? I pushed to move from Civ3 Stories and Tales, hard, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna say, "hi-yo, change proposed, LET'S ROLL!"

 

[sophie]

This statement is utterly absurd. "Change in the past has been good for NESing"? I pushed to move from Civ3 Stories and Tales, hard, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna say, "hi-yo, change proposed, LET'S ROLL!"

It's not even really the same thing. One was a partition of one subcommunity from a larger, different community, while the other is a merging of two distinct but similar communities into one. If anything they're polar opposite concepts.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

I'm not arguing that it's the same thing, as that would be an absurd argument. I'm just saying, that in the past, change was fought, but it turned out for the better, that's all.

 

[North King]

Sure, but you don't have to convince any of us (except maybe erez) that Change is a bad thing. You have to convince us that a Particular change is a good thing.

By the way, why is this change being rammed through when merging the A&E forum is somehow considered utterly taboo?

 

[erez87]

Lol. God, I'm not against change, just this one in particular. It's gonna end badly, but well, I guess I have to wait and see.

 

[sophie]

It is also unnecessary to close a less active forum that still has a small dedicated following. It would take a LOT of convincing about how things will be oh so much better before I would seriously consider doing that. A little bit of carping about low traffic does not even cross the maybe I should think about it threshold.

I'm still waiting for somebody to give me a solid, actual argument for why this merger will improve things over what we have now. So far nobody's said anything other than vague "it will improve traffic" (unproven and how does it improve traffic over what we're already doing now; those NESers who want to join IOTs already do so and vice versa), "it will foster a better community" (again vague and how is it certain the opposite won't happen?), and "we'll attain a great blending" (whatever the hell that means).

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Yeah, few posters in here, on either side of the ballot, seems to be very interested in convincing anybody else rather than just poking at the other side. I have see few cogent responses to:

I am very much interested in ideas about how things can be better or not for our current users with a merger. Tell me; are the two communities going merge more into each others games? into other community activities? are the two game forms going to cross pollinate and show some hybrid vigor? will the NES Iot interaction create a singularity sucking both communities into oblivion? Will there be communal warfare between factions?

Give me some insight here.

 

[North King]

Okay, cogent response:

Given the vitriol you've seen in this thread, it seems extremely unlikely that you won't see inter-factional strife. This is the largest and probably main "con".

Against one con, I see no pros. You probably won't see a significant increase in game activity, given that most mods who desire it actively recruit across both forums. In fact, various IOTers who have come onto #nes seem puzzled as to why the issue has been raised in the first place. The #1 reason given has been "I just want people to stop asking me to vote on the issue and invading my social thread/chat with the topic."

 

[Luckymoose]

Yeah, few posters in here, on either side of the ballot, seems to be very interested in convincing anybody else rather than just poking at the other side. I have see few cogent responses to:

I don't need to convince you why it is a good or bad idea. I merely need to express my concerns over what could happen under current direction. A position you've so far ignored.

 

[Thlayli]

It's a fairly simple historical narrative:

Most of the life and creative vibrancy left the NES forum after the Frontier split. Only a few people remained in the NES forum as of October 2014, so EQ, the newly appointed mod, was left to rule over a wasteland. There were significant stretches of time during this "fallow fall" when the NES forum, one of the most popular boards in CFC, had 1 or 0 posts per day, something unthinkable several months before. It was in this climate, historically speaking, that EQ realized his games could no longer flourish, and he decided to turn to IOT as a ready source of population.

BSmith, who was humiliated into temporary retirement by having gutted one of CFC's richest forums through his mismanagement of the Amon Crisis, likely saw this as a source of redemption as well. Once the moderators were in agreement on this plan, it was a simple matter of rallying mass support around the nostalgic idea that a larger population would bring a return to whatever idealized past you (as a NESer or an IOTer) personally supported.

Things have moderately improved in the NES forum since then; at EQ's request I returned to lead forum games, and a few other people also rejoined. But in large part, this was an initiative promoted in alliance between EQ and a segment of the IOT population. IOT, a newer forum with fewer traditional rights than NES, saw this as their ticket to cachet and increased autonomy within the forum structure, while EQ saw this as a chance to revive a NES forum in alignment with his philosophies.

So, this really satisfies everyone except the Frontier NESers, who remain unconvinced that this will do anything but flood the boards with players who are unrepresentative of their style of NESing, under the rule of two moderators who don't like them very much and probably aren't going to change their minds any time soon.

Moderator Action: You should have heeded Plotinus's stricture clamping down on this thread. 3 points for major flaming (including elements of PDMA).
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

I don't need to convince you why it is a good or bad idea.

Certainly not me, I am not even voting in this matter, and am perfectly happy to support either result. You need to convince the CFC community members who are interested in the matter.

 

[sophie]

Moderator Action: You should have heeded Plotinus's stricture clamping down on this thread. 3 points for major flaming (including elements of PDMA).
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Link to video.

Moderator Action: And Thou also should have heeded the warnings.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[JohannaK]

Every time I like less and less the idea of a merger.

 

[Ailedhoo]

Inter-forum shift would be easier to crush when the merge occurs. The "us vs them" will be forced to embrace unity or face penalties; thus away with conflicts. The majority of voters are clearly in favor of the merge not simply for "get out the way" but to end the artificial divisions that only harm our cultures. Merging will grand greater chance for blur games with mix and those who feel tribalism is hindering them trying out other games will no longer be barred. That is why Lefty we must honor the 64% who want change; this is but partially why we must embrace the merge.

To account the merge as "opportunism" to "reset the forums in their own image." It is amusing the anti-merge conspiracy theory that has risen. This thread is about the merge, not about EQ. PDMA is going to be harder to fight for if their is conspiracy theorists plaguing the debate! The merge has been supported by sections of NES and IOT; from Imm to I there are who campaigned for a vision. To dishonor these campaigners by fusing them aside for a revisionist account is most questioning. For the sake of PDMA talks do not keep poisoning potential diplomatic waters. The mods have been set to talk about PDMA; we must not hinder potential hopes.

 

[Civ'ed]

The "us vs them" will be forced to embrace unity or face penalties; thus away with conflicts.

so if there is no NES that particularly strikes my fancy I need to be punished? I've done nothing wrong! Maybe I'm focusing on another game, or have exams, or essays, or whatever!

To account the merge as "opportunism" to "reset the forums in their own image." It is amusing the anti-merge conspiracy theory that has risen. This thread is about the merge, not about EQ. PDMA is going to be harder to fight for if their is conspiracy theorists plaguing the debate! The merge has been supported by sections of NES and IOT; from Imm to I there are who campaigned for a vision. To dishonor these campaigners by fusing them aside for a revisionist account is most questioning. For the sake of PDMA talks do not keep poisoning potential diplomatic waters. The mods have been set to talk about PDMA; we must not hinder potential hopes.

And then there's this which uses the buzzwords of the debate but makes no actual sense.