erez87
Lord of Random
- Joined
- May 16, 2002
- Messages
- 13,500
So maybe it's just tendency of moderators here to not use infractions in our two forums until it's really out of control? Anyway, the trolling stopped? That's the important part.
NES/IOT Merger Poll
- Thread starter EQandcivfanatic
- Start date
Here is my point of view. Lucky and some others made some very disparaging and elitist remarks regarding IOT and NES. Perpetuating an old, and somewhat unflattering stereotype of IOT, inferring that IOT is a ghetto, etc.
Some people in IOT naturally didn't take this well and poked some fun back in a manner that could be construed as trolling/flaming. Responding to an initial troll with a troll by yourself is still trolling after all.
By the time I read everything it seems that things had cooled off and apologies from many of the players had been given. I can certainly go back and infract everyone, but frankly I feel that most of the players involved have kissed and made up.
Some people in IOT naturally didn't take this well and poked some fun back in a manner that could be construed as trolling/flaming. Responding to an initial troll with a troll by yourself is still trolling after all.
By the time I read everything it seems that things had cooled off and apologies from many of the players had been given. I can certainly go back and infract everyone, but frankly I feel that most of the players involved have kissed and made up.
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
How dare you of all people call me a troll? I promoted the differences of our two hobbies (something staff seems to not understand, but plenty of people on both sides do) in an attempt to save one group from being run by the other. This whole poll is about ignoring the community and pushing through with a merger without asking any of us what we really want out of one. You, and EQ, and Left have no right to not only dictate what our hobby is about but to let slide one form of trolling because you dislike the truths I bring up.
But then again breaking the rules to suit your own vision is exactly the sort of behavior we've come to expect out of the staff over our communities.
North King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
I don't dislike BSmith at all, and I don't expect the staff to remove him as a mod, but I think calling his handling of the situation "diplomatic" is a little ridiculous. Granted, he wasn't the first moderator to directly threaten members of the site. 
You basically called IOT a ghetto. It is hard to not think of that as a troll.
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
sophie
Break My Heart
Wow, so PDMA IS allowed as long as you're a mod. Noted.
IN the game subfora, leeway on moderating trolling and especially flaming was reduced a few years ago, after a prior go around in NES. Here in Site Feedback, things are bit more flexible.
Do I need to to go crack the whip on some reported posts after I finish some work? or is it under control now?
Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.
People ask for more context, so I give it and then get criticized for that. You can't have it both ways.
BSmith: I think you genuinely misunderstood Lucky's phrase "the ghetto we're being shoved in." I mean, it's fairly obvious that he means that NESers would be shoved in such a fashion that they became a ghetto within IOT/NES; whereas you seem to have taken him to mean that NESers would be shoved into IOT and that IOT is a pre-existing ghetto. It took me a while to work out that Lucky's words could be construed like that, and I think it's a rather unnatural way of reading them; but it's clearly your mistake.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
BSmith, one of the reasons your moderating is considered a bit suspect is that you go after Lucky disproportionately. He's your whipping boy, and you don't give equal attention to other people who troll him. You aren't an impartial mod, and you aren't the right mod for our forum. You don't even play in forum games. You played in one IOT, several years ago, and based on this (and who knows what kind of personal connections) you were somehow appointed to rule an entire forum who had basically no idea who you were.
Frankly, there's a reason that IOTers say "The mods like us," presumably more. CFC mods just don't get along well with NESers because we have the gall to want to be left alone to handle our own affairs. Yes, EQ is a NESer, but he's a NESer with a completely different philosophy and playstyle from that of the majority of the forum that left after September, and is probably closer to a lot of IOTers in his personal gaming philosophy. He hasn't done a horrible job, and I like him personally, but he isn't part of the group that feels abused and mistreated, so the Frontier group doesn't feel like he can effectively protect them.
There are plenty of excellent individuals who would lead our forum very well. thomas.berubeg is the only one I know of who actively wants the position, since most intelligent NESers would rather wash their eyes out with bleach than become a member of the staff. But we are capable of managing our own affairs, and we were for years. We don't need someone like you coming in and handing out decrees from on high.
You refuse to engage with PDMA, you refuse to engage with mod replacement, and you refuse to lift the veil on how you make decisions or who even runs CFC anymore with Thunderfall's disappearance. I think the real reason that you aren't able to make any changes is that you're paralyzed in the absence of a final authority to appeal to. Since now, the Admins are effectively the decision makers, and there's no official succession policy in the event of Thunderfall's disappearance, you've effectively become the Polish Sejm, with a unanimous vote necessary to get anything done. If there's even one dissenting admin, you can't make changes even if the majority of moderators are in favor.
So all it takes is one grouchy admin saying "Well this is the way we've always done things" to shut down an entire reform movement in the face of majority support. Which is ridiculous, but that's the position that you're locked into right now, you just can't say that out loud. Am I hitting pretty close to the truth?
We know there are moderators who have wanted the NES forum gone for years. One of the reasons this merge is getting pushed so heavily is because certain moderators probably think that once NES and IOT are merged, it will end this little 'rebellion' against your security state. If anything, it will do the opposite. NES-IOT contacts are stronger than ever before. IOTers and NESers are beginning to find solidarity in their mutual goals of independence and self-governance. You want to play with fire and revert to your traditional pablum about how nothing will ever change? Fine. We will oppose you every step of the way.
But this isn't going away. Our desires for self-governance are not going away. So crack that whip, Lefty, and show us what a slavedriver you can really be.
Frankly, there's a reason that IOTers say "The mods like us," presumably more. CFC mods just don't get along well with NESers because we have the gall to want to be left alone to handle our own affairs. Yes, EQ is a NESer, but he's a NESer with a completely different philosophy and playstyle from that of the majority of the forum that left after September, and is probably closer to a lot of IOTers in his personal gaming philosophy. He hasn't done a horrible job, and I like him personally, but he isn't part of the group that feels abused and mistreated, so the Frontier group doesn't feel like he can effectively protect them.
There are plenty of excellent individuals who would lead our forum very well. thomas.berubeg is the only one I know of who actively wants the position, since most intelligent NESers would rather wash their eyes out with bleach than become a member of the staff. But we are capable of managing our own affairs, and we were for years. We don't need someone like you coming in and handing out decrees from on high.
You refuse to engage with PDMA, you refuse to engage with mod replacement, and you refuse to lift the veil on how you make decisions or who even runs CFC anymore with Thunderfall's disappearance. I think the real reason that you aren't able to make any changes is that you're paralyzed in the absence of a final authority to appeal to. Since now, the Admins are effectively the decision makers, and there's no official succession policy in the event of Thunderfall's disappearance, you've effectively become the Polish Sejm, with a unanimous vote necessary to get anything done. If there's even one dissenting admin, you can't make changes even if the majority of moderators are in favor.
So all it takes is one grouchy admin saying "Well this is the way we've always done things" to shut down an entire reform movement in the face of majority support. Which is ridiculous, but that's the position that you're locked into right now, you just can't say that out loud. Am I hitting pretty close to the truth?
We know there are moderators who have wanted the NES forum gone for years. One of the reasons this merge is getting pushed so heavily is because certain moderators probably think that once NES and IOT are merged, it will end this little 'rebellion' against your security state. If anything, it will do the opposite. NES-IOT contacts are stronger than ever before. IOTers and NESers are beginning to find solidarity in their mutual goals of independence and self-governance. You want to play with fire and revert to your traditional pablum about how nothing will ever change? Fine. We will oppose you every step of the way.
But this isn't going away. Our desires for self-governance are not going away. So crack that whip, Lefty, and show us what a slavedriver you can really be.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2010
- Messages
- 8,873
Just as an aside, WIM was intentionally stirring up...something starting with "s" in that thread. Also BSmtih does play a heck of a lot of Mafia, while that is dissimilar to NESing/IOTing, he is very much a part of Forum Games.
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
WIM has been nothing but logical and nice to the NES community. Also, Forum Games are not the same as NES or IOT. Just cause he plays Mafia doesn't mean he has anything to do with either of our groups, or any history of activity within the community beyond passing through ages ago and never participating in the wider, active social circle of our hobbies.
Moderator Action: The purpose of this thread isn't to discuss individual moderators, or indeed moderation in general. Its purpose is not to discuss PDMA or any of the other site rules. It's also not to flame or troll people, or accuse other people of flaming or trolling. It's simply to vote in the poll for the proposed merger. I can't believe there are already nigh-on 300 posts in this thread, particularly when there's already another thread specifically for discussing the proposed merger. And most of the posts here are off-topic and a good proportion of them break one rule or another.
Please keep the discussion in here both civil and on-topic. I don't want to have to close the thread and make it a poll without any discussion.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Please keep the discussion in here both civil and on-topic. I don't want to have to close the thread and make it a poll without any discussion.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Ailedhoo
wonderer
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2012
- Messages
- 7,811
So for the merged forum name: I do like World Building Mage but what other options to choose from? Narrative and Other Games? Imperially Never Ending Imperial Offtopicums? Narrative, Exploration, Geopolitical and Other Games? Armchair Gods? Never Ending Imperium Stories OffTopic? The Commonwealth? Which will serve as a good potential name?
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
Never Ending Stories & Imperium Offtopicum. There's no reason to erase either name (though I don't like IOt as a name, since it reeks of Off Topic). And since our subforum number is vastly superior (69, and if we lose that I'll riot), your name should come second rather than alphabetical.
Ailedhoo
wonderer
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2012
- Messages
- 7,811
But what of styles that are neither? What of blurs? We need to be prepare just in case we have other styles of our game types, especially the love children of both our houses.
World Building Game for instance will erase nerd feelings of forum nationalism and place in the reality of the Commonwealth. A new name; a new beginning. IOT and NES will not die because its not the title of a new sub forum; it will be within or even in the description "a forum of [place either here], [place other here] and other games of world construction." Of course this is just the idea stage of the name but we will eventually reach the point of consideration.
I think the World Builders Commonwealth also has a potential.
Viva la Commonwealth!
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
Never Ending Stories is too special to me. I will never vote to remove such a beautiful name.
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