pre-release info New Civ Game Guide: Hawai'i

[dagriggstar]

Kinda feel like the UI should basically replace farms rather than make them better. Gives itself the culture adjacency then has the same base food/production. Partly because it is a type of farm itself but to be honest mostly because they look super cool irl so should be spammed in game.

Strange to me that we have an “islands” mechanic but with Hawaii not getting any direct bonuses to it, likely that no faction will have (extra) bonuses towards to it.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Very cool civ design, and kudos to myself for identifying the Hawaiian wonder from a glimpse one month ago.

I do feel like it is a missed opportunity not to portray the modern Hawaiian Kingdom, or to slot the Hawaiians into the 3rd Age. During the Kingdom's existence - described as "a short while" in the civ description - Hawaiians developed from a bunch of warring tribes into a unified and modernized constitutional monarchy recognized by the major European powers. If that is not interesting enough for some unique design space, I don't know what else can be.

Even if the civ slot is the writing on the wall, the historical developments of Hawaii still call for a dedicated "modernization" or "catch-up" type of leader. (Liliuokalani is a popular choice, although I would say Kamehameha III is equally important in Hawaiian history.)

 

[AriochIV]

Very cool civ design, and kudos to myself for identifying the Hawaiian wonder from a glimpse one month ago.

Especially remarkable considering that the glimpse wasn't of the wonder. Assuming we're talking about the same glimpse.

The glimpse:

The actual wonder:

Here are more images of that original building. My guess is that it's the City Hall.

Here is what I suppose is the Palace:

 

[8housesofelixir]

Especially remarkable considering that the glimpse wasn't of the wonder. Assuming we're talking about the same glimpse.

The glimpse:

View attachment 710624

The actual wonder:

View attachment 710620 View attachment 710621

Here are more images of that original building. My guess is that it's the City Hall.

View attachment 710623 View attachment 710622

Here is what I suppose is the Palace:

View attachment 710625

We are not talking about the same glimpse - I was replying to this shot from @JNR13, which undoubtedly shows the Hawaiian wonder Hale o Keawe.

 

[The Fanatical]

Interesting - less focus on naval exploration than I expected, but I guess since that’s going to be something everyone will want to be doing, there isn’t necessarily a need for a unique ship.

Please tell me that the double-hulled canoes and crab-clawed sails are represented in the naval and embarked unit graphics though! The only ship I see in the video looks sadly like a European carrack.

View attachment 710604
Hawai'i Background Art

So much work went on that majestic background, only for Hawai'i to get European looking ships. I suspect that the Unique Military Unit isn't naval because Tonga will get one, a Tongiaki or the bigger Kalia, which was the Tongan version of a Drua, the biggest ship that the Polynesians ever made before the arrival of the Europeans which carried at least two hundred people. Regardless, the Hawaiian ships should have looked like Waʻa kaulua or Peleleu war canoes. I believe the idea is that the Hawaiians adopted European ship designs, so they use more European looking ships, but the Waʻa kaulua stayed in existence until the twentieth century, so such a view is invalid.

By the way, Hawaiian units don't even have double-hulled canoes when embarking.

Waʻa kaulua

Waʻa Peleleu

Tongiaki

Kalia

Fijian Drua

 

[Takfloyd]

Has it been understood elsewhere what "marine" terrain is? What's the distinction with marine vs coast? (Starting bias has both).

Isn't the obvious explanation here that "marine" means water tiles of any kind(including navigable rivers), while coast is a land tile bordering the sea?

 

[Krikkit1]

Isn't the obvious explanation here that "marine" means water tiles of any kind(including navigable rivers), while coast is a land tile bordering the sea?

I think it was clarified Marine= Water tiles that are Not Navigable Rivers (Ocean, Coast, Lake)

 

[Prester John 2]

Everyone here is full of praise for the civ but frankly I'm bewildered and disappointed. The other exploration age civs all had large empires (maybe apart from the Shawnee) but Hawai'i is a set of - in world terms - smaller islands. I picture my transition from a antique civ with a large empire to ... Hawai'i. It's as if I transition from being Rome to playing as Malta in the exploration age. Or from playing a large Maurya empire to playing as Sri Lanka in the exploration age. Just the scale of civ doesn't sit right with me. They would have been great as an independent people, though.

 

[Nic@Melbourne]

Everyone here is full of praise for the civ but frankly I'm bewildered and disappointed. The other exploration age civs all had large empires (maybe apart from the Shawnee) but Hawai'i is a set of - in world terms - smaller islands. I picture my transition from a antique civ with a large empire to ... Hawai'i. It's as if I transition from being Rome to playing as Malta in the exploration age. Or from playing a large Maurya empire to playing as Sri Lanka in the exploration age. Just the scale of civ doesn't sit right with me. They would have been great as an independent people, though.

For those that feel that way there are 10 other options this age, so you should be covered.
And to be fair the most likely transition is Mississippian to Hawai’i.
I think Hawai’i would hold more mana than Mississippi to most people.

Then it likely leads to USA or Meiji.

As an Australian, I’d like to thank Hawai’i for ending Captain Cook

 

[gdr_willter]

Everyone here is full of praise for the civ but frankly I'm bewildered and disappointed. The other exploration age civs all had large empires (maybe apart from the Shawnee) but Hawai'i is a set of - in world terms - smaller islands. I picture my transition from a antique civ with a large empire to ... Hawai'i. It's as if I transition from being Rome to playing as Malta in the exploration age. Or from playing a large Maurya empire to playing as Sri Lanka in the exploration age. Just the scale of civ doesn't sit right with me. They would have been great as an independent people, though.

Considering the possibility that many players willingly accept the Rome -> Florence, which is also the disappointing transition in the pov on the empire's size and power, I think there is no problem with Hawai'i.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

another civ that if it was up to me, would prob be better in modern, but i can accept this if there’s a long-term vision to include the maori as a modern civ.

design looks really cool and i’m excited to play them—prob would be my first play through if not for the chola

 

[Thenewwwguy]

So, what are the chances we get Maui as leader, instead of Kamehameha or Lili'uokalani?

considering the civ 7 leader track record this is nonzero. i’m begging firaxis to do lili’uokalani tho

 

[pokiehl]

Isn't the obvious explanation here that "marine" means water tiles of any kind(including navigable rivers), while coast is a land tile bordering the sea?

Sar helpfully clarified that is not the case earlier in the thread.

At least since Civ 5, “coast” has always referred to shallow water non-lake tiles—never land. Looks like they are keeping that convention for Civ 7 too.

 

[j51]

Everyone here is full of praise for the civ but frankly I'm bewildered and disappointed. The other exploration age civs all had large empires (maybe apart from the Shawnee) but Hawai'i is a set of - in world terms - smaller islands. I picture my transition from a antique civ with a large empire to ... Hawai'i. It's as if I transition from being Rome to playing as Malta in the exploration age. Or from playing a large Maurya empire to playing as Sri Lanka in the exploration age. Just the scale of civ doesn't sit right with me. They would have been great as an independent people, though.

I don’t mind the scale of the civ and yeah it would make more sense as modern, but I get why it’s not. What I still don’t get is all the people saying it plays uniquely? All I see is a ton of boring gain culture for X bonuses. I was hoping for something more asymmetrical for Hawai’i.

 

[Atlas627]

I don’t mind the scale of the civ and yeah it would make more sense as modern, but I get why it’s not. What I still don’t get is all the people saying it plays uniquely? All I see is a ton of boring gain culture for X bonuses. I was hoping for something more asymmetrical for Hawai’i.

The missionary enables ocean sailing much earlier because it can heal everything. So I would say that's pretty unique.

 

[Acepox]

Tropical tiles.

Reminded me it's not jungle anymore, it's tropical - plains or vegetated - ... They really should change it to "wooded".

Semantic perfection is the enemy of the good and cool.

Civ is a game, not a dissertation on climatology. Which means, also, that players will probably shorten the 4-syllable word to "vedge", which sounds even more pejorative.

@Andrew Johnson [FXS] echoing our latest exchange on a similar topic. Wondering if you had any thoughts on this.

I'd also suggest changing wet, which, cmon this is the internet, to "wetland(s)". It might still be verbally shortened to wet, but at least it sounds a bit more serious on paper.

 

[j51]

The missionary enables ocean sailing much earlier because it can heal everything. So I would say that's pretty unique.

Yeah if you can chain them, but I just was hoping for more, like special perks for voyaging. Or maybe their culture bonuses are offset with some kind of inland malus? Or maybe they have a different unique improvement that’s for marine tiles? Certainly the Leiomano could tie in better with marine combat, or only earn culture when it fights on the coast? And why does it have a bonus against cavalry?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

The missionary enables ocean sailing much earlier because it can heal everything. So I would say that's pretty unique.

Dubious. It's not clear whether they can heal while embarked or while in an Army Commander stack. Naval units can heal themselves in coastal water anyway, so they don't need a Missionary to tag along for scouting.

The bigger benefit of the Kahuna is to heal land units during attacks on cities, then converting the city once completed.

 

[j51]

The bigger benefit of the Kahuna is to heal land units during attacks on cities, then converting the city once completed.

This would only emphasize my point. Any number of civs could have a missionary that heals land units. Hawai’i should have stuff with a more maritime bent, or at least a little more zhuzh.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

This would only emphasize my point. Any number of civs could have a missionary that heals land units. Hawai’i should have stuff with a more maritime bent, or at least a little more zhuzh.

It is reflective of Kamehameha's conquest of the other Hawaiian kingdoms and unifying their religion.