Luckymoose
The World is Mine
I've actually found spreadsheets and better models to be very liberating. But I guess my NES isn't a model for success.
EoE is just some wannabe RTOR with all the fun sucked out of it. >:[
New NESes, ideas, development, etc
- Thread starter das
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EoE is just some wannabe RTOR with all the fun sucked out of it. >:[
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Says the guy using his massively complicated electronic math machine performing thousands of calculations per millisecond to type this message.
Looooooooool. Let's take this to the logical endpoint. NES by mail! NES by mail!
Yes, of course, there are intangibles to every game that can't or shouldn't be modeled. But dude, you can't just reject spreadsheets.
Amon Savag
The Great
Sure can! NESes have been ran without spread sheets from the begining, and now we have NESes that are updated once a month or some nonsense like that because people try to complicate things too much. That's not really success imo. Name one NES in the community that updates once a week consistantly using spread sheets and I'll stfu right now.
TheMeanestGuest
Warlord
And who exactly cares about update frequency? No one whose opinion is worth listening to. Update quality is what moderators should be striving for - not frequency. And no, you can't have both.
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
Holy crap I completely forgot NESes used to be updated weekly. Woa. How can people manage time to keep that pace...
TheMeanestGuest
Warlord
Because NESes also used to be terrible.
thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
Botwawki (before summer came along and reduced it to a two week interval) updated once a week on the dot.
Edit: Misread. No spreadsheets.
And Mods used to be in highschool
Amon Savag
The Great
Exactly. You may not have both. So leave the narrative to the players, and let the mod update often. This is the funnest model. Players can make goals and achieve them and create their own stories easier in this model.
If a NES lives for 3 months and achieves 3 updates is it more successful than the NES that lived 3 months and achieved 12 updates? Did the players have the chance to realise any of their goals in either of these models? Which of these models has more history at the end of 3 months? IN WHICH NES DID PLAYERS HAVE THE MOST FUN?
Whoever says those NESes were "terrible" weren't a part of them. Many is the night I would be on AIM all day making schemes with and against fellow NESers in these "terrible" NESes so that I could play out the menace that was my country and shape the history of the NES I was in. Can't really do that these days with these NESes. They update too infrequently and often die too quickly to see any of these designs completed.
Amon Savag
The Great
Feeling of accomplishment usually synergizes with "fun". Since this is the case, we can deduct that people obviously have more fun in NESes where they get things accomplished. You can get things accomplished easier in a NES that is consistently updated.
So the question is, why do people trash talk easily updated NESes in favor of these unplayable idealistic leviathans? Either they haven't played in a good old consistently updated NES, or it's been so long since they have that they've forgotten.
To remind you, I give you these.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=62278
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=48445
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=76612
and of course
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=31531
Terrible? If you asked any of the players at the time they were in these NESes they would no doubt laugh at you.
Side-note, check out all the grammar mistakes. So hilarious. It's obvious that these are high school kids having fun, but they were actually having fun. We grown ass adults are arguing about non-issues in stead of having fun as these kids were.
If NES has to be a ing simulator of real life get into politics and see how high you can get and influence real world affairs. Think of it as a game. That's the only way you're going to get your idealistic amount of realism.
Grandkhan
Telvanni Master Wizard
I think BOTWAWKI is partially automated. So less spreadsheets and more actual programming, which is probably worse from Amon's perspective.
To be fair EQ is a machine though so yeah.
North King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
Consistent updates?
Sounds like a job for END OF EMPIRES!
No, but seriously, the key is consistency of updates, not the time period between them. I know this is going to sound key-razy, but some people have fun in different ways than other people. And it just so happens that I have fun in a much more serious way than my 14 year old self did. And it's okay if you still have fun the same way you did back when you were a kid! That's just fine! You can have fun whichever way you want, and far be it from me to denigrate any given way of running an NES.
But I like the NESes I run, and a lot of other people do, and it just so happens that spreadsheets make it a hell of a lot easier to update, and it also just so happens that a month is just about the right amount of time between updates, given that each update is some 20 pages, and many of the players spend the time writing stories in between.
Heck, I'm pretty sure if I tried to make it weekly, most of my player base would leave. It's not like they're all twiddling their thumbs between when I post something. Log on #nes through any given day and EoE is bound to come up, even if I'm late with my update and it's been 5 weeks since the last one. People are scheming and plotting through the whole inter-update period and I would be remiss if I didn't point out how the "long" wait between them actually facilitates that, and doesn't impair it in the slightest.
Is there a trade off? Sure! People who have a short attention span won't get very far, because it will just go too darn long.
Is the trade off worth it? Sure! Not every NES will appeal to everyone, and I'm okay with that.
Would I join an NES that has weekly, one page updates? Nah, I'm looking for something more in depth than that.
Would I care that one's running? Not really; it's a free forum!
So can we all agree to the fact that there's different ways to skin a warthog, and go back to our respective warthog skinning methods? And if someone wants to explain why they're doing this nonsense a certain way, don't tell them "baaaaaaaaah spreadsheets are HORRIBLE", just ignore their NES. It ain't that hard. Goodness knows I'm ignoring a whole bunch at present.
Sounds like a job for END OF EMPIRES!
No, but seriously, the key is consistency of updates, not the time period between them. I know this is going to sound key-razy, but some people have fun in different ways than other people. And it just so happens that I have fun in a much more serious way than my 14 year old self did. And it's okay if you still have fun the same way you did back when you were a kid! That's just fine! You can have fun whichever way you want, and far be it from me to denigrate any given way of running an NES.
But I like the NESes I run, and a lot of other people do, and it just so happens that spreadsheets make it a hell of a lot easier to update, and it also just so happens that a month is just about the right amount of time between updates, given that each update is some 20 pages, and many of the players spend the time writing stories in between.
Heck, I'm pretty sure if I tried to make it weekly, most of my player base would leave. It's not like they're all twiddling their thumbs between when I post something. Log on #nes through any given day and EoE is bound to come up, even if I'm late with my update and it's been 5 weeks since the last one. People are scheming and plotting through the whole inter-update period and I would be remiss if I didn't point out how the "long" wait between them actually facilitates that, and doesn't impair it in the slightest.
Is there a trade off? Sure! People who have a short attention span won't get very far, because it will just go too darn long.
Is the trade off worth it? Sure! Not every NES will appeal to everyone, and I'm okay with that.
Would I join an NES that has weekly, one page updates? Nah, I'm looking for something more in depth than that.
Would I care that one's running? Not really; it's a free forum!
So can we all agree to the fact that there's different ways to skin a warthog, and go back to our respective warthog skinning methods? And if someone wants to explain why they're doing this nonsense a certain way, don't tell them "baaaaaaaaah spreadsheets are HORRIBLE", just ignore their NES. It ain't that hard. Goodness knows I'm ignoring a whole bunch at present.
Kozmos
Jew Detective
We have become like the US Congress. Complete with a Ron Paul arguing we return to the gold standard.
Symphony D.
Deity
Ice burn bro, but I didn't say that back in 2009 or something, and the point was you can't be bothered to read things written within 48 hours, literally within a few posts of yours, and that makes you really hard to take seriously, because it's evidence that you do not, in fact, read. A curiously reoccurring problem on these here forums.
Actually, you can, it would just be a full time job nobody would do for free. This remains instructive:
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
Reading StJNES4 and one of Sheep's last posts: Why is it that 'of' instead of 'have' is such a common typo? They're completelly differently typed on a keyboard. I understand the similarity in pronounciation, but why does it translate into someone typing it? I don't see people randomly typing "witch way are you going".
Amon Savag
The Great
@North King
End of Empires has well written updates, for sure, and the players have fun not only because your updates are well written, but because there has been many updates with which the players have brought about certain accomplishments in that NES's world.
My fear, however, is that all the new mods attempt to replicate this without knowledge of the other styles of NES that is available to run. It seems I'm the only one advocating that we don't need 20 pages of update literature, and I think that this is a danger to the community as a whole because not many people would have your motivation.
NESers who want to mod their own NESes shouldn't feel pressured to make an "End of Empires" style NES, or an S.D. spreadsheet simulationist style "real life with every head accounted for or gtfo" style NES to be successful.
And I think to simply agree to disagree on this subject is doing everyone a disservice. All the styles of NES have certain strengths that appeal to different NESers, and we need to constantly advocate our preferred style so that people would be persuaded to play in each style and see how it suits them.
I'm not going to ignore NESes that have a different style than that which I would like to play. I might find something I can use in my own NESes.
That being said, if you really think spreadsheets are making your job as mod easier, then sign me up. Show me the path to easier updates, and I shall walk it.
End of Empires has well written updates, for sure, and the players have fun not only because your updates are well written, but because there has been many updates with which the players have brought about certain accomplishments in that NES's world.
My fear, however, is that all the new mods attempt to replicate this without knowledge of the other styles of NES that is available to run. It seems I'm the only one advocating that we don't need 20 pages of update literature, and I think that this is a danger to the community as a whole because not many people would have your motivation.
NESers who want to mod their own NESes shouldn't feel pressured to make an "End of Empires" style NES, or an S.D. spreadsheet simulationist style "real life with every head accounted for or gtfo" style NES to be successful.
And I think to simply agree to disagree on this subject is doing everyone a disservice. All the styles of NES have certain strengths that appeal to different NESers, and we need to constantly advocate our preferred style so that people would be persuaded to play in each style and see how it suits them.
I'm not going to ignore NESes that have a different style than that which I would like to play. I might find something I can use in my own NESes.
That being said, if you really think spreadsheets are making your job as mod easier, then sign me up. Show me the path to easier updates, and I shall walk it.
Amon Savag
The Great
Maybe it's an australian thing? Make sure to read the part where Sheep formed a huge coalition against me that I crushed.
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
What's wrong with 20 pages of update literature if the players want it? How does that harm the community when the players in those NESes produce as much, or more, content of their own than the mod? Who are you to drag us back into the abyss of olden times, where NESes were competitive war games driven only by bizarre ignorance of humanity, history, and creativity?
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