New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[Symphony D.]

Am I wrong? Integrating a system of policy options would essentially negate the process of writing orders, certainly as it's currently understood in most NESes. Perhaps you envision a mix of policy options with player textual input of some kind, I don't know. But what you have described previously flies -- in my experience -- against conventional wisdom in regards to orders and their role in NESing, which is pretty integral just at the moment.

Yes, because you have literally not read a goddamn word I've written. I've stated, inferred, suggested, and alluded to the general incompetence of moderators at making decisions, because they do not by and large have the specialist knowledge to actually make informed decisions about say, economics. Things that could be modeled and systematically processed for consistent results.

Although in an ideal world a lot of orders could be sped up by data entry through a GUI (i.e., military movements), I have never, not even once, suggested the elimination of orders as a thing. When a player says "I want to stimulate the economy by raising taxes," or just "grow economy," guess what, a moderator would still have to interpret that, especially if the player did not have access to the system underpinning the game (which I have continuously advocated they should not) because exactly how else are those thoughts going to get into the system? Telekinesis?

Guess what that means? There are still orders and the interpretation of orders by moderators. Everything you have spewed paragraph after paragraph out about exists literally only in your mind, which is why I have been slamming you for grossly and misinterpreting my position this entire time, and why I have steadfastly criticized what is either a willful distortion or a fundamental failure at comprehension. In either case, you have failed to understand my premise at literally every step of this extended discussion.

 

[Thlayli]

Given that this is fundamentally a thread about *specific* NES development and ideas, I think we should refocus this discussion over to WWW or another theorycrafting thread.

So as, you know, not to derail the interesting and important projects that are coming down the pipeline.

 

[Symphony D.]

As far as I'm concerned there's nothing left to "discuss."

 

[Angst]

I'd try out the Europa UniversNES actually.

I mean, I slightly dislike stringent reading and academical realism simply due to it requiring such a heavy investment. I could play a minor nation though and therefore not screw up everything too bad. I simply want to participate to try it out.

 

[Amon Savag]

Why not get a multiplayer game of Victoria going and have each player do an AAR (if thay wanted) in between sessions? This would be more your style of NES, right Symphony? If that's not modern enough there's HoI or Supreme Ruler. These games take out the need for a mod and spreadsheets so that all can just sit down play and have fun, then RP some stories in between with AARs.

 

[Luckymoose]

Why not get a multiplayer game of Victoria going and have each player do an AAR (if thay wanted) in between sessions? This would be more your style of NES, right Symphony? If that's not modern enough there's HoI or Supreme Ruler. These games take out the need for a mod and spreadsheets so that all can just sit down play and have fun, then RP some stories in between with AARs.

You underestimate the depth this man requires to climax. Your Victorian whores, no matter their Iron Hearts, will offer no such pleasures here. >:[

 

[Amon Savag]

Well it would be the most unbiased way to do things. Acting like a spread sheet can simulate economics better than video game calculations is pretty ridiculous. If spread sheets could simulate economics, we'd have world hunger solved by now.

 

[ChiefDesigner]

Why is bias a bad thing?

 

[Amon Savag]

Why is bias a bad thing?

Troll alert.

 

[ChiefDesigner]

Troll alert.

Wah wah wah.


There is a great disparity in skill level, knowledgeability, and mathematical understanding between players. In a modern NES, I as a mod would be quite biased against a player who, say, tries to pull Italy out of the EU.

Given that, I'll ask the qeustion again. Why is bias a bad thing?

 

[erez87]

Depends on the bias I guess. Story-based or Player-based.

 

[Thlayli]

Well it would be the most unbiased way to do things. Acting like a spread sheet can simulate economics better than video game calculations is pretty ridiculous. If spread sheets could simulate economics, we'd have world hunger solved by now.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm pretty sure spreadsheets can simulate world hunger. :3

I am also super curious as to how you think 'video game calculations' work, as if both those and spreadsheets don't use algorithms, lol.

 

[Disenfrancised]

I understand that. I mostly mean that I personally would never agree to use such things, and it is why I thought SysNES 1 and 2 were horrible. But then again, I hate doing orders at all, let alone complex ones.

Lol if you thought SysNES orders were complex - there was much less required than many of das old NESes.

Well it would be the most unbiased way to do things. Acting like a spread sheet can simulate economics better than video game calculations is pretty ridiculous.

...you realise they're both just maths acting on tables right? Paradox games barely do anything non-linear.

A spreadsheet can do anything you want it too. The problems are a) design b) implementation time and c) compliance.

 

[Luckymoose]

Lol if you thought SysNES orders were complex - there was much less required than many of das old NESes.

I don't support those either. I'd prefer to just give narrative outlines for things I'm interested in and leave it up to mod interpretation.

 

[Symphony D.]

Why not get a multiplayer game of Victoria going and have each player do an AAR (if thay wanted) in between sessions? This would be more your style of NES, right Symphony? If that's not modern enough there's HoI or Supreme Ruler. These games take out the need for a mod and spreadsheets so that all can just sit down play and have fun, then RP some stories in between with AARs.

Would it interest you to know that I don't play or even much like Paradox games?

Learn 2 Read kthnx

There is a great disparity in skill level, knowledgeability, and mathematical understanding between players.

I love people who treat NES as a competitive activity, like there's anywhere else in the world where people routinely expect Middle Schoolers vs. Post-Docs to turn out fair.

 

[Amon Savag]

My bad S.D., I don't really have much motivation to go back and read every single little post you've ever made in your life time, and I could read and comprehend everything you said except "kthnx". Looked it up in the dictionary and could not find it anywhere. Learn to write in English.

Disenfranchised, you are correct. With spreadsheets there is still room for bias, and in a video game there is not (Other than those biases programmed in, which can be modded out.)

 

[Disenfrancised]

Not what you mean by bias at this point; talking about moddings is just substituting the designers biases with your own. If you mean consistency in inputs well I already mentioned compliance .

All models are wrong, finding useful ones is the point (useful in this context meaning generating 'fun').

 

[Amon Savag]

We have plenty of models for success. StJNES4, StJNES5, RoTR2, so forth. Not perfect, but plenty of fun to be had.

The most fun comes from consistency in updates. Updates can be given consistently if the rules and stats aren't overbearing for the moderator. Thus I reject spreadsheets.

 

[Luckymoose]

We have plenty of models for success. StJNES4, StJNES5, RoTR2, so forth. Not perfect, but plenty of fun to be had.

The most fun comes from consistency in updates. Updates can be given consistently if the rules and stats aren't overbearing for the moderator. Thus I reject spreadsheets.

I count zero of those as models for success.

 

[North King]

I've actually found spreadsheets and better models to be very liberating. But I guess my NES isn't a model for success.