New Tech Tree Playtesting + Feedback

[Imperator Knoedel]

For purely egoistic reasons I would prefer you keep them separate for a while. I don't like change.

 

[Leoreth]

egotism is false consciousness

 

[Leoreth]

Updates:
- fixed even more pagan temple art (Vedic Temple, Druidic Nemeton)
- improved pedia descriptions for pagan religion requirements
- pagan buildings (pagan temple, pagan wonders) require no state religion and no religion in the city
- Temples require Priesthood, Monasteries require Theology

 

[Tigranes]

I really hope you can merge sooner rather than later, there are good changes in both branches and its cool to experience them all...

 

[Leoreth]

New updates:
- new Orthodoxy icon
- new building art for Orthodox religious buildings, Catholic/Protestant cathedral, using the previous cathedral for Catholic/Protestant church

 

[Tigranes]

RFCE just introduced a very simple rule which I think makes a lot of sense in the context of our game as well:

Switching from Paganism to State Religion/Theocracy/Organized Religion gives you a free religion choice (so no extra anarchy) right on civic change

Because it is very annoying when both F3 and F7 screens make you go through consecutive turns of anarchy during the paganism -- > major religion conversion. Feels like double taxation.

AI civs won't do a revolution in the first couple turns after birth (wait for the potential city flips, initial conquests/settling, war declarations, and whatnot)
- AI civs won't do a revolution in the first couple turns of the scenario either (keep the initial civics until relations are more established)

Again, a very sensible thing to do for any game with rfc-type mechanic. Because AI does not understand historical context and tends to do their thing instead of following designer's ideas about what civics they have to chose. This way AI won't almost always start its first turns with revolutions.

 

[Temujin8k]

RFCE just introduced a very simple rule which I think makes a lot of sense in the context of our game as well:



Because it is very annoying when both F3 and F7 screens make you go through consecutive turns of anarchy during the paganism -- > major religion conversion. Feels like double taxation.



Again, a very sensible thing to do for any game with rfc-type mechanic. Because AI does not understand historical context and tends to do their thing instead of following designer's ideas about what civics they have to chose. This way AI won't almost always start its first turns with revolutions.

Omg, I just knew about this... This could've been useful in my past RFCE games...

 

[soul-breathing]

Still AI tech speed is too fast. This is Regent, Normal, 1700ad, Canada, and AI England, France and Spain have at least 6-7 techs ahead to Canada.

 

[Temujin8k]

Still AI tech speed is too fast. This is Regent, Normal, 1700ad, Canada, and AI England, France and Spain have at least 6-7 techs ahead to Canada.

General observation: Tech speed too fast in 1700 AD games, too slow for 3000 BC and 600 AD ones...

 

[Tigranes]

I agree with the previous gentlemen. Even though in my USA game I was able to catch up and overtech Old World in 1700 start with some shrewd tech trading. Humans always have advantage over AI in different trading schemes.

 

[Leoreth]

RFCE just introduced a very simple rule which I think makes a lot of sense in the context of our game as well:

Because it is very annoying when both F3 and F7 screens make you go through consecutive turns of anarchy during the paganism -- > major religion conversion. Feels like double taxation.

I don't quite get that, there is nothing preventing you from adopting a religion before adopting a different religious civic. Does the initial civic not allow state religions in RFCE? If so, that's not applicable here. In general, adopting a state religion is something that gives you a benefit, and the cost that it takes is anarchy. Same for civics.

Again, a very sensible thing to do for any game with rfc-type mechanic. Because AI does not understand historical context and tends to do their thing instead of following designer's ideas about what civics they have to chose. This way AI won't almost always start its first turns with revolutions.

Yes, I plan to apply that to a variety of game rules / AI behaviours that should apply at the beginning of the game for a civ.

 

[soul-breathing]

I think I've got an idea to solve the problem of AI's too fast tech speed in 1700ad scenerio.

How about make the initial techs of the new civ dynamical? The initial techs depend on the civ who capture the new civ's core area. For example, when America appears in 1775ad, the core area is captured by England, then the initial techs of America could be the same with England, or 1-2 more, or 1-2 less. At the same time, it could be a lower limit in order to prevent the techs too backward.

I don't know if it's easy to achieve in code, but it should be a suitable way.

 

[Leoreth]

But on the other hand, the starting techs of a civ should reflect the period of history where it appeared.

Scenarios each have their own tech costs modifiers already, and I haven't tried balancing them better yet. So let me look into that first.

 

[Leoreth]

A cavalcade of updates:
- reverted Temple and Monastery tech requirements (monastery timeframe was too short and missionaries came too late)
- Pagan Temple also gives +1 priest slot
- Lumbermill now requires Steel
- Crop Rotation and Labour Unions each give +50% production from chopping forests
- somewhat increased build time for cottages, removing forests/rainforests/jungles, roads, railroads and significantly increased build time for scrubbing fallout
- plague can now kill workers unlike regular units
- plague will downgrade cottages again
- new unit: Laborer, upgrades from Worker, requires Labour Unions, +50% construction speed
- show civ specific pagan temples in civilopedia
- fixed pagan temple art for Asatru and Rodnovery
- fixed paganism requirement text in the civilopedia
- instead of the previous effects, Supermarkets now give +10% food with power
- instead of Grocers, Supermarkets now require Market
- Coffeehouse requires Patronage
- Red Fort requires Logistics
- Great Merchant for first civ to discover Economics

 

[Tigranes]

Oh wow, these are all good changes! Russia is going to be needing many Laborers! I hope plague rule affects them as well.

Any chance to address many time discussed situation with Blue Mosque? Istambul was anything but the city with no unhappiness. This wonder under new name is more suitable for some East Asian city like Ayutthaya, especially given the fact that we don't have Thai wonder in the game. Some UNESCO site could be appropriate, for example Wat Ratchaburana. Of course if you can find suitable art for it (the most common impediment).

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, but not sure if Thailand is the best alternative, considering that they already have a happiness UP.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

Not a fan of workers dying to plague, but it seems worth a shot. Everything else seems solid.

 

[Malchar]

But on the other hand, the starting techs of a civ should reflect the period of history where it appeared.

Scenarios each have their own tech costs modifiers already, and I haven't tried balancing them better yet. So let me look into that first.

I've always loved the idea of spawning with dynamical techs. When America achieved independence, it didn't start out with all of the most cutting age technologies. In fact, it was probably behind in technology for the first 50 years at least. It could be argued that America had the most advanced "social technologies", such as Democracy, but it certainly was not ahead in technology overall, which is what can often happen when spawning with non-dynamical techs.

 

[star15389]

Newly spawned civs tend to have bad research for a long time so for gameplay it's probably for the best if USA is way ahead on spawn

 

[Doufny]

i have a question , what setting is better to test the tech tree. I test all scenario with monarch and all speed level and i never see a fairly tech progress. With Spain reach the 2 first uhv before even one other european found a colony. On the other hand i never could reach the portuguese uhv because of the low techspeed. But i'm a really try harder so ! I just want to know if is there a base setting for playtesting ?