On reincarnation of God

[Farm Boy]

I will say this, that the art, music, poetry and architecture of the deeply religious is often well beyond that of the those who are not.

The best see with a wider lens.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Lol, back in the day maybe, that's cause the church would pay your bills if you create art for the cathedrals. Draw some elephant God instead and you'll probably be killed. Draw a bowl of fruit and you probably won't have any $ for actual fruit.

What you said certainly doesn't hold true for modern times.

I said "deeply religious" and not Christian. I would include all of those things from all around the world and through time. If by "modern times" you mean the last 200 years or so, that is only a tiny slice of historical time. Cathedral like buildings were usually paid for by rich churches or governments but those are not the sum total of religious artistry. Regardless of who paid for any such art, the artist or artists involved were expressing religious belief in their work. Did you miss my point entirely? Deep religious belief can produce awesome art in all its forms.

 

[Rg339]

Millions upon millions of hours spent devoting oneself to religion probably does inspire some grand artistic visions.

One wonders what we’re missing because of that time, though. If people spend millions upon millions of hours pondering anything, they’re gonna come up with some cool ideas. What does mind like that of Aquinas achieve if it’s devoted to, say, agricultural tool improvement?

 

[amadeus]

Answering the question: I have neither the hubris nor delusion to make a statement elevating myself beyond a simple, single, middle-aged man who struggles with even the most minute and tedious of tasks.

I have zero interest in arguing and only ask that I be left alone.

 

[Narz]

The best see with a wider lens.

Religion is a narrowing. There's a vast universe, vast mysteries, and then someone comes up w some nonsense & all of a sudden all wisdom in contained in some rambly tome.

I said "deeply religious" and not Christian. I would include all of those things from all around the world and through time.

You can't really speak for all time since 99.999% of art is irrecovably gone.

If by "modern times" you mean the last 200 years or so, that is only a tiny slice of historical time.

So is last 5k years.

And it's the only slice of historical time in the last few thousand not dominated by religion. It's also led to an explosion of art.

Cathedral like buildings were usually paid for by rich churches or governments but those are not the sum total of religious artistry. Regardless of who paid for any such art, the artist or artists involved were expressing religious belief in their work. Did you miss my point entirely? Deep religious belief can produce awesome art in all its forms.

No doubt. I like some hymns n stuff. But certainly not enuf to listen to regularly. My playlist includes 0% religious music, my instagram, my youtube algorhym has 0% religious images & videos. Do you find yourself mostly admiring art & music that's religiously inspired (or financed)?

 

[Farm Boy]

Oh is it a narrowing, then? Tell me more about the mysteries of faith.

 

[Narz]

Faith is the opposite of mystery.

If you have faith something will happen or something is true you eliminate the mystery (in your own mind at least).

 

[Farm Boy]

Even with a childlike faith the wonder was never absent. Like never, really. You know?

Thinking you have everything sorted out is pretty boring, I would agree with that statement.

 

[Modder_Mode]

I never understood why a perfect being who is capable of creating something like the universe would ever require worship. If anything you'd think that such a being would not want to be worshipped.. Requiring worship points to an ego, a need for praise and approval, the need to feel superior.. Do these sound like qualities of a perfect superbeing to you or like a thing humans made up one day, because at the time their Emperors & Kings required worship as well?

Slightly off-topic now, but I was able to catch up on some posts and worship seemed to have been a topic of discussion to some degree. I just got home so I'm behind the times wrt the discussions happening in this thread, but the whole worship thing never made sense to me. If a god really exists, and he's perfect and awesome, he's going to ask me to worship him? That makes zero sense to me.

If this being was not perfect and some sort of a jealous creature instead, like the Jewish/Christian God described in the old testament.. then yeah! That makes a lot more sense.

It would totally even make sense in the context of reincarnation. "I'm a jealous god, worship me, or I won't reincarnate you into a human and you'll either die forever or come back as a frog"

Richard Dawkins describes the God of the Old Testament as follows:

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

 

[Narz]

Richard Dawkins describes the God of the Old Testament as follows:

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

This is why evangelical Christians adored Trump, he's got a very similar personality to their diety.

 

[Farm Boy]

Haven't kept up with the conversation well, eh?

S'aight. We all get old. Well, not all.

 

[Modder_Mode]

This is why evangelical Christians adored Trump, he's got a very similar personality to their diety.

I agree there is some truth to this and I don't think anyone would disagree that Trump qualifies for a lot of those personalities, a few years ago I posted a similar synopsis on Trumps personality failings, but I think most of Trumps "attractiveness" was due to his policies not so much his personalities.

 

[Narz]

What policies? Build the wall, give tons more money to an already bloated military? I think it was 90% cult of personality, I don't think anyone's shocked he didn't accomplish most of his promises, it was just about being caught up in the moment.

 

[Farm Boy]

The military spending looks less foolish now that the fash are marching.

 

[warpus]

Richard Dawkins describes the God of the Old Testament as follows:

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

The 1.5 testament which outlines God's experiences @ rehab is glaringly missing from the Bible.

 

[El_Machinae]

It's there (a bit) in the New Testament. It takes selective reading, but it's available to be perceived that way. Too many people pull a loving motivation from their faith to believe otherwise. I'm in a perpetual feud with someone else in this thread, but I'd never doubt his moral sincerity.

"Treat others as you wish to be treated" and
"Forgive others as you expect to be forgiven" and "live like moral choices matter in the long run"

does a lot of heavy lifting. After that, it's just choosing what needs to be forgiven and what never does, because no actual harm was ever caused.

Richard Dawkins describes the God of the Old Testament as follows:

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

I have said (more than once) that the Abrahamic texts are some of the most success pieces of Libel against God ever written, presuming a Creator exists. No other writings have caused so many people to so fervently believe false (and evil) things about God.

 

[Edmund Ironside]

Richard Dawkins describes the God of the Old Testament as follows:

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

We can all throw quotes around!

For example here is a (non Christian) review of his most famous work.

“Without a shred of evidence to support it, the only difference between cosmological evolution and any other kind of creation myth is that it is cleverly shrouded in scientific words. Dawkins does this a lot throughout his book. He takes questionable concepts and shrouds them in scientific words in order to give them the look of scientific legitimacy.” - From a review by the Journal of Evolutionary Philosophy on Richard Dawkin’s book the God Delusion.

And here is a more fun quote from comedian Marcus Brigstocke “I was an atheist when I started reading The God Delusion. By the time I’d finished it, I was an agnostic. I was going to read it again, but I was worried I might turn into a fundamentalist Christian.”

This is why evangelical Christians adored Trump, he's got a very similar personality to their diety.

Several issues here. Firstly what is an evangelical? Most people can't answer this question clearly or accurately. Well it is (or at least originally was) a purely theological term. See below for the most common definition of what is an evangelical.

It is not a political or racial term. For example a lot of black Christians who consistently vote Democrat could be considered evangelicals. It is therefore hard to say how many 'evangelicals' voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020, but out of the main Christian groups (Protestant and Catholic) he at most only got 60% of their votes in either election. Meaning 40% or more of Christians did not vote for Trump in either election.
I suspect when people say 'evangelical' they probably mean 'white' and 'protestant.' Possibly also mean 'conservative' and from the 'bible belt.'

The Ten Minute Bible Hour has a couple of good videos on the subject; "what is an evangelical," and "the word evangelical is dead." But if you don't want to watch the videos it can be summarized as we need to stop using the word as it is unclear what it means. If you categorize using the original meaning of the word, categorize by those who self identify as an evangelical (I don't think many Christians these days actually use the term), or categorize as it is used by political pundits you will get 3 radically different looking groups of Christians.

 

[Narz]

https://www.pewresearch.org/politic...-voters/#religious-affiliation-and-attendance

 

[Edmund Ironside]

@Narz you know what you posted proves my point! Protestant 56, catholic 52. Evangelical obviously doesn't count (see my post above, plus they specify white evangelical, which you didn't). Thanks for backing me up!

 

[Samson]

There is something wrong with their survey if they ask different questions of different people. I cannot find the details of the questions online, but how do they get such different categories depending on ethnicity and religion? Also, TIL that it is public knowledge in the US if you voted or not, is it not supposed to be a secret ballot?