Is a third thread going to really make any headway? People who are irrationality opposed to expressing the 1st Ammendment and unable to understand the difference between Wahabist Muslims and Sufis aren't going to learn anything in the third thread or the three-thousanth.
Is a third thread going to really make any headway? People who are irrationality opposed to expressing the 1st Ammendment and unable to understand the difference between Wahabist Muslims and Sufis aren't going to learn anything in the third thread or the three-thousanth.
I have always, and can back this up with old quotes, supported the religious freedoms of pretty much all religions (I may have said bad things about scientologists). I've defended Islam against comments that it is a violent religion. And I truly believe that to be opposed to this mosque is to be opposed to the very fabric of our society and the freedoms that it is founded upon. I think I've been totally consistent here with my history on CFC OT.
That's what's so great about these fools. They're petrified that Muslims are going to take over America, overthrow the constitution, install Sharia law, etc etc.
Just check out this Crazy Grandma:
New York Times said:
As a mother and a grandmother, I worry, Ms. Serafin said. I learned that in 20 years with the rate of the birth population, we will be overtaken by Islam, and their goal is to get people in Congress and the Supreme Court to see that Shariah is implemented. My children and grandchildren will have to live under that.
I do believe everybody has a right to freedom of religion, she said. But Islam is not about a religion. Its a political government, and its 100 percent against our Constitution.
Hey, speaking of damaging Muslim relations, you know what would really alienate American Muslims (all 0.2% of them) and make them believe that the American people and the American constitution are their enemies? How about we deny their fundamental Constitutional rights and treat them as if they are all on probation after 9-11?
Now that the mosque opponents have started saying things like "They are building the next terrorist command center right next to the WTC" they have lost every right to be heard.
Originally Posted by Oldschooler88 in the last thread:
I for one am against it because of what the mosque symbolizes. And the people that did the terror attacks of 9/ll did not just "happen to be muslim". They did the attacks IN THE NAME OF ISLAM.
If I shoot up a shopping mall, or bomb a professional football stadium filled with spectators in the name of Cheeseburgers, would you then be against eating at McDonalds?
I made a long post that no one answered to either, so that seems fair to me. But as for that? If there was a large following of people that worshiped the cheese burger, and some of these people were dangerous, then yes, I would be against it.
And just for the record, I'm against cheeseburgers anyway because
1. An animal had to suffer for me to eat the cheese burger
2. Cheese burgers aren't healthy.
The problem is people lumping all Muslims together. And now matter how hard people try, ignorance continues within this country. It's actually a little sickening. Radicals brought down the Twin Towers. Yes, they happened to be Muslims, but to say the represent Islam, it's a complete falsehood.
Real Amercans: "We want you to build it somewhere else."
Muslims: "We want to build it here, on our land."
Real Amercans: "Then we compromise, build it somewhere else."
Muslims: "How is that a compromise."
I have always, and can back this up with old quotes, supported the religious freedoms of pretty much all religions (I may have said bad things about scientologists). I've defended Islam against comments that it is a violent religion. And I truly believe that to be opposed to this mosque is to be opposed to the very fabric of our society and the freedoms that it is founded upon. I think I've been totally consistent here with my history on CFC OT.
Well when Mobby spoke of consistency, he didn't mean consistency in your moral positions, but rather consistency in toeing the party line at any cost. While you have him beat in the former interpretation, he runs circles around you in the latter.
So guilt by association then? Nice morality there.
If they were openly supportive of AL Qaeda or another such group, we wouldnt be having this discussion...they would be in Gitmo or other similar dark hole, and the issue would be resolved.
Probably. How about the Westboro Baptist Church opening up a branch in a predominately gay neighborhood in San Fran, or South Beach in Miami, or Philidelphia?
Real Amercans: "We want you to build it somewhere else."
Muslims: "We want to build it here, on our land."
Real Amercans: "Then we compromise, build it somewhere else."
Muslims: "How is that a compromise."
Real Amercans: "9-11!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111!!11!!"
Concerned people: "We want you to change your name, we find it offensive." Jeff Dilmer: "Huh? But it's my name. Why should I?" Concerned people: "Your name is too similar to Jeffrey Dahmer. The wounds are still fresh." Jeff Dilmer: "That's not my fault, and not my concern. My name isn't Jeffrey Dahmer, it's Jeff Dilmer. I've done nothing wrong and I resent being compared to Dahmer, no matter what stupid vague similarities we might have." Concerned people: "You're also a white male. We fear white males named Jeff with last names that sound like Dahmer." Jeff Dilmer: "Let's say my father was one of the people responsible for putting his butt in jail. Why am I being associated with someone else who was guilty of something horrible, when I'm nothing like that person? Need I remind you that that was a DIFFERENT PERSON?" Concerned People: "You need to compromise, and move away from this community" Jeff Dilmer: "My cousin was murdered by Jeffrey Dahmer!" Concerned People: "You have to move away or change your name, and we're going to park outside your house and protest and make your life miserable until you do." Jeff Dilmer: "Can't you see that you're being irrational?" Concerned People: "Can't you see that we're haunted by the memories of Jeffrey Dahmer? Just do what we say, no matter how stupid it is." Jeff Dilmer: "Fine, what do you want my new name to be?" Concerned People: "Babbling Idiot Q. Terrorist-lover" Jeff Dilmer: "I object to that.... my family name is no one's business, and I hate that you want to pressure me into doing based on your asinine false associations. I refuse! This is prejudice, pure and simple!" Concerned People: "We're totally not bigots. Don't call us bigots, because we're the victims here. That means by definition, no one else can be victims of our own unjust behavior." Republican congressmen: "I support Jeff Dilmer's right to be named Jeff Dilmer, but I think it's a bad idea. He should totally change his name to Babbling Idiot Q. Terrorist-lover." Democratic congressmen: "Oh yeah, totally, we agree. But not because we're spineless and only pretend to have principles." President: "Hey, this might be wrong." Concerned People: "THE PRESIDENT SUPPORTS JEFFREY DAHMER!!! HE MIGHT ALSO BE A CANNIBAL." Fox News: Barrack Hussein Obama..... eats children? More at eleven.
Spoiler:
Concerned people: "We want you to change your namethe location of your place of worship, we find it offensive." Muslims: "Huh? But it's my nameproperty. Why should I?" Concerned people: "Your namereligion is too similar to Jeffrey Dahmerthe 9/11 terrorists. The wounds are still fresh." Muslims: "That's not my fault, and not my concern. My name isn't Jeffrey Dahmer, it's Jeff DilmerI do not believe what they believe, and I have a record of being peaceful and moderate. I've done nothing wrong and I resent being compared to Dahmerterrorists, no matter what stupid vague similarities we might have." Concerned people: "You're also a white maleMuslim. We fear white males named Jeff with last names that sound like Dahmerall Muslims." Muslims: "Let's say my father was one of the people responsible for putting his butt in jail. Why am I being associated with someone else who was guilty of something horrible, when I'm nothing like that person? Need I remind you that that was a DIFFERENT PERSON?There were Muslim first responders on 9/11 and many Muslims fight in our armed forces, defeating radical extremists. Muslims aren't the problem, and we are not all the same." Concerned People: "You need to compromise, and move away from this community" Muslims: "My cousinMuslims were murdered by Jeffrey Dahmerthe 9/11 hijackers!" Concerned People: "You have to move away or change your namereligion, and we're going to park outside your housemosque/community center and protest and make your life miserable until you do." Muslims: "Can't you see that you're being irrational?" Concerned People: "Can't you see that we're haunted by the memories of Jeffrey Dahmer9/11? Just do what we say, no matter how stupid it is." Muslims: "Fine, whatwhere do you want my new namemosque/community center to be?" Concerned People: "Babbling Idiot Q. Terrorist-lover[based on nation-wide protests to construction of mosques and idiot congressmen suggesting maybe no more mosques should be built ANYWHERE]Nowhere in this country. Go back to Saudi Arabia until they're allowed to build churches there!" Muslims: "I object to that.... my family namereligion is no one's business, and I hate that you want to pressure me into doingpressure me into leaving based on your asinine false associations. I refuse! This is prejudice, pure and simple!" Concerned People: "We're totally not bigots. Don't call us bigots, because we're the victims here. That means by definition, no one else can be victims of our own unjust behavior." Republican congressmen: "I support Jeff Dilmer'sMuslims' right to be named Jeff Dilmerbuild a mosque/community center on their own private property in the same city as the WTC site, but I think it's a bad idea. HeThey should totally change his name to Babbling Idiot Q. Terrorist-lovermove their mosque/community center." Democratic congressmen: "Oh yeah, totally, we agree. But not because we're spineless and only pretend to have principles." President: "Hey, this might be wrong." Concerned People: "THE PRESIDENT SUPPORTS JEFFREY DAHMER!!!MUSLIM TERRORISTS OVER 9/11 VICTIMS!!! HE MIGHT ALSO BE A CANNIBALMUSLIM!" Fox News: Barrack Hussein Obama..... Muslim and terrorist sympathizer? More at eleven.
"We're totally not bigots. Don't call us bigots, because we're the victims here. That means by definition, no one else can be victims of our own unjust behavior."
Probably. How about the Westboro Baptist Church opening up a branch in a predominately gay neighborhood in San Fran, or South Beach in Miami, or Philidelphia?
It would be more akin to a random Christian group opening a church near where the WBC oerfored their antics attacking the community because they and the WBC are chirstian..
Some counterterrorism experts are now claiming the hallowed grounders are likely inciting more terrorism, as I suggested earlier:
“I know people in this debate don’t intend it, but there are consequences for these kinds of remarks,” said Brian Fishman, who studies terrorism for the New America Foundation here.
He said that Anwar al-Awlaki, an American-born cleric hiding in Yemen who has been linked to several terrorist plots, has been arguing for months in Web speeches and in a new Qaeda magazine that American Muslims face a dark future of ever-worsening discrimination and vilification.
“When the rhetoric is so inflammatory that it serves the interests of a jihadi recruiter like Awlaki, politicians need to be called on it,” Mr. Fishman said.
“It’s seen as proof of what Awlaki and others have been saying, that the U.S. is hypocritical and that most Americans are enemies of Islam,” Mr. Kohlmann said. He called the anti-Islam statements spawned by the dispute “disturbing and sad” and said they were feeding anti-American sentiment that could provoke violence.
She said that extreme anti-Muslim views in the United States ironically mirror a central tenet of extreme Islamists: “That the world is divided into two camps, and they’re irreconcilable, and Muslims have to choose which side they’re on.”
“For the first time, anti-Islamic rhetoric has gone mainstream,” he said. “What this really does is weaken the moderates and undermine their credibility.”
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this is all an exercise in post-whoring.
