Plan for Mosque III...

[Formaldehyde]

And Christians everywhere are responsible for the actions of the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda. Heck, it implies that all religious folk are responsible in some way for the actions of the few religious terrorists that attacked the WTC.

I doubt you would find many atheists who are trying to blame Islam for terrorism and 9/11. It seems that the vast majority of the enmity towards Muslims is coming from Christians, especially the most virulent forms of it.

 

[cardgame]

tiny sect of extremist muslims does something violent: All Moslems are responsible.

tiny sect of extremist christians does something violent: Not all Christians are responsible.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

That's because forgiveness and loving your enemies are seen as 2 of the greatest sins in Christianity.

 

[Cutlass]

I still love it. During the Health Care Reform the right was screaming about how we are a 'rule by law' republic that stops Athenian Democracies. What do they want now? The Athenian Democracy to ignore the laws.

No one ever claimed conservatives were morally consistent.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

Why should terrorism be even discussed when there's nothing that links the mosque builders and any sort of terrorism? (save mobboss' weak attempts of linking sufism to al qaeda in somalia)

Discussing terrorism turns the rhetoric back into the hands of the opposition, when what's really going on is more a matter of rights. I know for a fact that most of the people in Tennessee opposed to this didn't think even think about ground zero a few months ago, so the "it's too sooooon " excuse has got to go. It's been ten years, that's not too short a time for a simple mosque and community center that has said it's mission is one of peace. New Yorkers who don't like it? Then go to it when it's built, keep an eye on them if you must satiate your paranoid side. Maybe you'll actually learn something there about the big, bad Other. Non New Yorkers who don't like it? Well it's really not your problem.

Fact is, there's a mosque being built here in Murfreesboro that I'm sure you've all heard of, and the sentiments of the neighbors are well recorded and I'm sure you've all heard them. To pretend this isn't the same ignorant side of America that's speaking out in opposition to the Manhattan mosque also is to be a part of the ignorant side.

 

[JollyRoger]

I can't understand why we are letting the Muslims here get away with false advertising. If they want a ground zero mosque, let them have the guts to build it on ground zero.

 

[Traitorfish]

Or hovering above it, just to take the mickey.

 

[rollo1066]

This seems to be a very silly issue to me. While I could never be a Muslim because I don't agree with that religion's ideas about God they have as much right to build a house of worship as anyone else. It is very unlikely that outsiders could convince them they are wrong to build one on land they own and control. This is just being used to try to get support by politicians who don't want to tell people what benefit they will get by supporting them (probably because they won't get any).

 

[JollyRoger]

One of our local churches wants to open a child care center despite the fact that my state has seen a string of Christian women killing their kids. I can't believe they are being so insensitive.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I think all churches near the coast should be banned. It's too soon after the flood.

 

[Camikaze]

Wow, this argument still going?

Surely, surely, it isn't that hard to grasp this issue (and it really shouldn't even be that).

Without reading both this and the last thread, I assume the argument has followed the same circular pattern of:
Point 1:
Opposers of the mosque: Building the mosque is insensitive!
Supporters of the mosque: How is it insensitive to build a mosque?

Point 2:
O: It's okay to build a mosque, just insensitive to build it near Ground Zero!
S: How is it insensitive to build it near Ground Zero?

Point 3:
O: Because 9/11 was committed by Muslims!
S: Yeah, but not these Muslims.

Point 4:
O: It doesn't matter if these Muslims committed 9/11, the two are inextricably linked!
S: How are the two any more inextricably linked than the actions of nutcase murderous Christians who use their religion to justify their bloodlust?

Point 5:
O: Because Christianity has many different branches, and the murderous ones are in no way linked to the rest!
S: Islam is also a highly diversified religion. Those wanting to build the mosque have and had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.

Point 6:
O: But Islam is inextricably linked to 9/11, so it's insensitive!

And so we are back to Point 1.

Now, no single one of those six points that the 'O' side use is correct. Point 1 ignores the fact that religious freedom is more important than people's sensibilities. In fact, making sensible decisions is more important than pandering to the foolish whims of others. For instance, if the government wanted to make it illegal to kill people, in a hypothetical world where killing people was legal, and most people were against that, and found the idea of such a restriction offensive, then it would still be the right decision to ban the killing of people. That is a pretty basic concept that seems to be completely be missed by the 'O' side. Point 2 continues this mistake.

Point 3, 4 & 5 ignore the painfully obvious fact that not all Muslims are responsible for 9/11. There really should be no need to explain why this is the case, so I won't bother going into it.

And Point 6, again, just brings us back to where we were started.

I assume this is what has happened, with a bit of variation every now and then.

 

[Cutlass]

Don't forget that a couple dozen people have pointed out that the 1st Amendment to the Constitution makes it all a moot point and so the opponents should STFU.

 

[Traitorfish]

But but but but FEELINGS!!!

 

[ParadigmShifter]

That picture is hideous.

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

I declare this argument won on all substantive points by those supporting the community center construction. I declare all arguments against this "mosque" to be wholly without merit. Given that the law, facts, and popular opinion are on the side of those with the right to build the mosque, plus the fact that it's going to happen anyway, history will end up reflecting well on those supporting it, and wonder what the heck those opposing it were smoking.

There are very few advocating against it, and those that are, merely repeat the same tired irrelevancies over and over again, convincing no one in the process.

/end of discussion.

 

[Cutlass]

You have to understand: The real point of the whole "issue" is to rile up a hot button issue to motivate the reactionary vote to come out for the elections in a couple months. It really only boils down to that.

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

You have to understand: The real point of the whole "issue" is to rile up a hot button issue to motivate the reactionary vote to come out for the elections in a couple months. It really only boils down to that.

Oh man, you just gave away the big surprise. You liberals seem to hate fun!

Buzz Killington, I presume?

 

[JollyRoger]

Let's face it - the terrorists have defeated a large segement of the American population and it the First Amendment right of that segment to openly display their weakness to the enemy.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

I declare this argument won on all substantive points by those supporting the community center construction. I declare all arguments against this "mosque" to be wholly without merit. Given that the law, facts, and popular opinion are on the side of those with the right to build the mosque, plus the fact that it's going to happen anyway, history will end up reflecting well on those supporting it, and wonder what the heck those opposing it were smoking.

There are very few advocating against it, and those that are, merely repeat the same tired irrelevancies over and over again, convincing no one in the process.

/end of discussion.

actually, it'll probably look back on those who were against it and wonder why they werent smoking

 

[Tekee]

There are very few advocating against it, and those that are, merely repeat the same tired irrelevancies over and over again, convincing no one in the process.

/end of discussion.

The longer Mobboss is silent the more the side for the mosque are winning

Point 2:
O: It's okay to build a mosque, just insensitive to build it near Ground Zero!
S: How is it insensitive to build it near Ground Zero?

Point 3:
O: Because 9/11 was committed by Muslims!
S: Yeah, but not these Muslims.

But then why do they want to build it near gorund zero?
Just build the damn thing in a cheaper location away from this area.
But no, the Mosque is trying to show teach us a lesson on religious tolerance. Saudi Arabian style.

Maybe the hope is that with a mosque in the vicinity, the area will be immune to Islamic terror.

Otherwise the Mosque is just an Imam's wet-dream of scandal.