Proofs that God is imaginary

[warpus]

I should think that any absence of evidence of the existence of a divine being also excludes the existence of God. The problem, however, as I already indicated, is that there is no universal definition of what God really is, so evidence either way is impossible to obtain - which was my point.

What? Listen, just because we don't have evidence for something, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

That is not a good way to disprove that God doesn't exist - and we are back to my previous post. How would you prove that God doesn't exist?

How would you prove that anything doesn't exist?

 

[Flying Pig]

No evidence means no grounds for belief, so you can prove that it is irrational to belive in God which is similar.

 

[Mowque]

No evidence means no grounds for belief, so you can prove that it is irrational to belive in God which is similar.

Irrational doesn't mean wrong though. I agree that Christianity is absurd.

 

[Flying Pig]

True; but if we believe everything which has any chance of being right we run the risk of becoming Sun readers. I advocate no belief until we know why it works - I can't accept anything which 'just is'. Pascal may convince a few people that it is actually better to be religious, but if God is there he hates me, so I'm going the other way.

 

[Mowque]

True; but if we believe everything which has any chance of being right we run the risk of becoming Sun readers.

Well, on issues where the data is unclear, sometimes we have to take a 'risk' or a leap of faith.

 

[Flying Pig]

Why? No comprendo.

 

[Traitorfish]

Well, on issues where the data is unclear, sometimes we have to take a 'risk' or a leap of faith.

I agree that, in some situations, it may be necessary to treat some things as certain, when, in fact, they may not be, but I wouldn't call this a "leap of faith", at least not if you approach it rationally. It's a judgment of probability, of what is most likely to be correct, not merely believing what you wish to be true, which is, essentially, what a "leap of faith" entails.

wow, there are so many atheists around here.
Must be hip to be atheist these days.

Which implies that, for the majority, religous faith is also determined by social convention, robbing it of any legitimacy it may have. In that light, atheism is really the only honest position one may hold, so you really don't have any ground for criticism. If you're just going to believe in what everyone else does, then, surely, it's better to simply believe in nothing?

 

[Mowque]

I agree that, in some situations, it may be necessary to treat some things as certain, when, in fact, they may not be, but I wouldn't call this a "leap of faith", at least not if you approach it rationally. It's a judgment of probability, of what is most likely to be correct, not merely believing what you wish to be true, which is, essentially, what a "leap of faith" entails.

What if it's a case where I see both options as equal? As long as I understand that I mgith not be right.

 

[Cutlass]

I can't help but think that religious faith, like music, is universal to human societies. It didn't spread from society to society, from tribe to tribe. It was everywhere, right from the beginning. It was only later on that some religions became dominant over others. If every society came up with it's own religions, then that suggests that the truth of religion falls in a pretty narrow range of possibilities.

1) All religion is fictional: Humans simply have some innate need to create one.

2) There is one God, and he has an absolutely bazaar sense of humor, and chose to reveal himself to virtually every group in history in a different manner.

3) There are/were many gods, and the stronger overwhelmed the weaker over time and drove the weaker into obscurity/nonexistence.

4) Most gods were imaginary, one God is real.

Of those possibilities, which one actually makes sense?

 

[Mowque]

Of those possibilities, which one actually makes sense?

What about one God who was interpreted a bunch of different ways?

 

[Cutlass]

What about one God who was interpreted a bunch of different ways?

Why ?

 

[Mowque]

Why ?

It just seemed like another option?

 

[Cutlass]

It just seemed like another option?

I think it would fall under #2, because to be as wildly misinterpreted as Egyptian animal/human hybrids, Aztec monster gods, European juvenile delinquent gods, Jehovah, and Allah, just staggers the imagination.

 

[Agent327]

What? Listen, just because we don't have evidence for something, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

That is not a good way to disprove that God doesn't exist - and we are back to my previous post. How would you prove that God doesn't exist?

How would you prove that anything doesn't exist?

It seems to me we are in agreement here - which what my previous post was about.

Could someone list the "contradictions" in the bible (and don't give me the whole evolution/creationism debate) because I'm looking but I can't find any....

Really? I always say people should google more... But just off the top of my head:

- there's 2 Genesis versions
- there's 2 10 Commandments versions
- there are 4 different canonical Gospels (the most diverging one being the Gospel according to John)
- according to the NT John the Baptist is a follower of Jesus (the baptism itself confirms that the other way around would be the only logical conclusion).

I can't help but think that religious faith, like music, is universal to human societies. It didn't spread from society to society, from tribe to tribe. It was everywhere, right from the beginning. It was only later on that some religions became dominant over others. If every society came up with it's own religions, then that suggests that the truth of religion falls in a pretty narrow range of possibilities.

1) All religion is fictional: Humans simply have some innate need to create one.

2) There is one God, and he has an absolutely bazaar sense of humor, and chose to reveal himself to virtually every group in history in a different manner.

3) There are/were many gods, and the stronger overwhelmed the weaker over time and drove the weaker into obscurity/nonexistence.

4) Most gods were imaginary, one God is real.

It would be more appropriate to say that all people are implicitly spiritual, but that this expresses itself in various ways.

 

[Dachs]

- according to the NT John the Baptist is a follower of Jesus (the baptism itself confirms that the other way around would be the only logical conclusion).

I don't quite understand what you're saying here.

 

[Agent327]

I probably should correct that statement: according to Christian tradition John was a follower of Jesus, but that's not in accordance to what the NT says. (So this would not be an example of inconsistency in the Bible itself, but in the Christian tradition after the fact. The Bible, inadvertantly, tells the true story: Jesus gets baptized by John; would you then say Jesus was a follower of John, or, as many Christians believe, that John was a follower of Jesus? The fact is that, historically, John preached before Jesus started to, and it might well be that he in fact inspired Jesus to follow his example - even to the point of getting himself killed by the authorites. As Plotinus pointed out on his Ask A Theologian thread, early Christians were rather embarassed by Jesus getting baptized by John, hence, most probably, the turn-around in their version of the story. But if you just read the relevant chapters, there's no denying that John baptizes Jesus - which, in itself, is already somewhat odd, if He be the Son of God.)

 

[StarWorms]

The actions caused by humans can cause other humans to suffer. The reasons humans can take those actions is because of free will. God loves us so much, he has given us free will, but that doesn't mean he approves of every action we take. Pain and suffering exist because of us, not because of God.

But we are all individuals. What has a 6 month old baby done to deserve to die?

 

[El_Machinae]

Of those possibilities, which one actually makes sense?

My god (who's all powerful) created all the gods, made them a bit schizophrenic and gave them the cognitive dissonance to not realise it.

 

[Cutlass]

My god (who's all powerful) created all the gods, made them a bit schizophrenic and gave them the cognitive dissonance to not realise it.

You have quite the logical god there

 

[Flying Pig]

But we are all individuals. What has a 6 month old baby done to deserve to die?

If God exists; his version of justice is a long way from ours; he would be considered along with Hitler were he a world leader (advocating genocide and racism; religious intolerance, absolute government and censorship)