Proofs that God is imaginary

Whether the bible supports the idea of multiple gods depends on how one defines a "god," which can differ in different languages.

Elohim could mean gods, but more literally it would be "strong ones" (or strong one or most strong one when the plural word is used in the singular as it is when referring to the God of Israel). Having other powerful entities (including mere mortals with political power) does not contradict monotheism.
 
1st commandment: "Thou shalt not have any other gods before me." (Exodus chapter 20, verse 3).

Despite what many Jewish scholars would lead you to believe, their religion was not definitively monotheist until the Babylonian Exodus, aka the 5th Century BC, which the Exodus most certainly happened before.
 
Despite what many Jewish scholars would lead you to believe, their religion was not definitively monotheist until the Babylonian Exodus, aka the 5th Century BC, which the Exodus most certainly happened before.
Is it time to deploy the term 'syncretic henotheism' yet? By gum I think it is! :D
 
Despite what many Jewish scholars would lead you to believe, their religion was not definitively monotheist until the Babylonian Exodus, aka the 5th Century BC, which the Exodus most certainly happened before.

Don't know about Jewish scholars, but the presence of such immortal beings as "angels" in the Bible/Torah suggests God isn't the only divine being, just the one supreme. (N.B. Satan is referred to as a "fallen angel", i.e. an angel denying God's supremacy, which again suggests angels obey God on accord of their own will, not because they have no choice in the matter.)
 
There are a lot of different theories of what or if Satan is. I don't think mot Jews believe in him at all. In Islam, angels have no free will but djinni (another group of divine beings, make of smokeless flame instead of pure light like angels or clay like man) like Satan do.
 
I don't think Satan is in the Torah (he only appears in the NT - as Jesus' seducer), and believing in him would be contradictory to the 1st commandment.
 
What does that mean? I googled it and nobody else in the world knows!
Syncretic means that it is a mixture, adopting elements of other things (in this case, other cultures and theogonies). Henotheism is a system in which one deity is worshipped without denying that other deities exist.
 
So believing that everybody's religion is valid? Tolerant, and good for civilisation as a whole, but not very logical - Pastafarianism becomes as valid as the Big Bang theory
 
I don't think Satan is in the Torah (he only appears in the NT - as Jesus' seducer), and believing in him would be contradictory to the 1st commandment.

Not really. The first commandment doesn't tell you that you can't believe that other Gods exist - only that you can't worship them ahead of Yahweh.
 
So believing that everybody's religion is valid? Tolerant, and good for civilisation as a whole, but not very logical - Pastafarianism becomes as valid as the Big Bang theory
No, that's not what henotheism means at all. It's like an intermediary step between polytheism and monotheism. :p
 
I don't think Satan is in the Torah (he only appears in the NT - as Jesus' seducer), and believing in him would be contradictory to the 1st commandment.
He does, actually, going by the title of the "Accuser" or "Slanderer" the name "Satan" being an Anglicisation, I believe, of whatever that is in Hebrew. He was a servant of god, tasked with testing the faith of mankind, consistent with his role as the "Seducer" in the Gospels. It's only outside of the Old Testament and Gospels that the modern concept of Satan begins to emerge, and, even then, a lot of that is comprised of later superstition, rather than any Biblical basis.
And, of course, the first commandment would forbid his worship before that of Yahweh, as you say, as with any other celestial being. Besides, in the context of his role as a seducer in the service of god, it would be hard to imagine a situation in which he could have been worshiped.
 
I don't think Satan is in the Torah (he only appears in the NT - as Jesus' seducer), and believing in him would be contradictory to the 1st commandment.

He is mentioned in the first two chapters in the book of Job, which was the first book written He is also mentioned by other names in the OT. He is called Lucifer in Isaiah 14, which means day star, which is in direct contradiction to the morning star which refers to the Messiah i Hebrew Scriptures. He is said to be the king of Tyre, in Ezekiel 28. Of course the NT refers to him as a serpent, in reference to Genesis 3.

The last part is confusing, are you refer just believing that he exists? or actual Satanism where you are worshipping him?
 
:blush: Yes, yes, I stand corrected... Although Lucifer literally translates to "Lightbearer" or "Lightbringer", but I'm unfamiliar with what the term in Hebrew or Aramaic might be (Lucifer being Latin, from lux - light - and ferre - to carry, so it can't be the original term). Good to sea the Torah/OT is still in the minds of some - thanks Phlegmak, Traitorfish and classical_hero.:hatsoff:

Yeah, I'm just saying that "believing that they exist" doesn't equal "listening to them"

The 1st commandment explicitly acknowledges the existence of other gods, but insists they are false idols. (The mentioning of the devil, as in Job and Ezechiel, actually confirms this: false gods lead to evil things, whereas God is the only true god.)
 
But how do you know the devil isn't necesarily a god...

Also, I think the belief in faith is utter bull****

Oh, and according to the website on the first post:

Spoiler :
What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:

Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.

We pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways.

Will anything happen? No. Of course not.

This is very odd. Jesus makes specific promises in the Bible about how prayer is supposed to work. Jesus says in many different places that he and God will answer your prayers. And Christians believe Jesus -- according to this recent article, "54% of American adults believe the Bible is literally true." In some areas of the country the number goes as high as 75%.

If the Bible is literally true, then something is seriously amiss. Simply look at the facts. In Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:

Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

If "every one who asks receives", then if we ask for cancer to be cured, it should be cured. Right? If "our Father who is in heaven gives good things to those who ask him", then if we ask him to cure cancer, he should cure it. Right? And yet nothing happens.

In Matthew 17:20 Jesus says:

For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

If "nothing will be impossible to you", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should disappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note that if we take the Bible less-than-literally here, the statement "nothing will be impossible to you" becomes "lots of things will be impossible to you," and that would mean that Jesus is lying.

In Matthew 21:21:

I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

If "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should dissappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note again that there is not a non-literal way to interpret "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", unless you replace "whatever" with "nothing" or "little."

The message is reiterated Mark 11:24:

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

If God says, "believe that you have received it, and it will be yours," and if we believe in God and his power, then what should happen if we pray to cure cancer tonight? It should be cured. Either that, or God is lying.

In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, Jesus tells all of us just how easy prayer can be:

"I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." [ref]

Look at how direct this statement is: "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." This is the "Son of God" speaking. Have we taken him "too literally?" No. This is a simple, unambiguous statement. Have we taken his statement "out of context?" No - Jesus uses the word anyone. Yet Jesus' statement is obviously false. Because when we ask God to cure cancer tonight, nothing happens.

We see the same thing over and over again...

In Matthew 18:19 Jesus says:

Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

In James 5:15-16 the Bible says:

And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

In Mark 9:23:

All things are possible to him who believes.

In Luke 1:37:

For with God nothing will be impossible.

Nothing could be simpler or clearer than Jesus' promises about prayer in the Bible. Yet, when we pray to eliminate cancer, nothing happens.

And keep in mind that this is Jesus talking here. These are not the words of human beings. These are not the words of "inspired" human beings. These are supposedly the words of God himself, incarnated in a human body. Jesus is supposed to be a perfect, sinless being. And yet, it is obvious that Jesus is lying. What Jesus says is clearly incorrect.
 
Back
Top Bottom