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Proofs that God is imaginary

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by eastsidebagel, Apr 13, 2009.

  1. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    Whether the bible supports the idea of multiple gods depends on how one defines a "god," which can differ in different languages.

    Elohim could mean gods, but more literally it would be "strong ones" (or strong one or most strong one when the plural word is used in the singular as it is when referring to the God of Israel). Having other powerful entities (including mere mortals with political power) does not contradict monotheism.
     
  2. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    I think that more or less implies that God accepts the existence of other gods ;)
     
  3. Cheezy the Wiz

    Cheezy the Wiz Socialist In A Hurry

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    Despite what many Jewish scholars would lead you to believe, their religion was not definitively monotheist until the Babylonian Exodus, aka the 5th Century BC, which the Exodus most certainly happened before.
     
  4. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    Is it time to deploy the term 'syncretic henotheism' yet? By gum I think it is! :D
     
  5. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Don't know about Jewish scholars, but the presence of such immortal beings as "angels" in the Bible/Torah suggests God isn't the only divine being, just the one supreme. (N.B. Satan is referred to as a "fallen angel", i.e. an angel denying God's supremacy, which again suggests angels obey God on accord of their own will, not because they have no choice in the matter.)
     
  6. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    There are a lot of different theories of what or if Satan is. I don't think mot Jews believe in him at all. In Islam, angels have no free will but djinni (another group of divine beings, make of smokeless flame instead of pure light like angels or clay like man) like Satan do.
     
  7. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    I don't think Satan is in the Torah (he only appears in the NT - as Jesus' seducer), and believing in him would be contradictory to the 1st commandment.
     
  8. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus Moderator

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    What does that mean? I googled it and nobody else in the world knows!
     
  9. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    Syncretic means that it is a mixture, adopting elements of other things (in this case, other cultures and theogonies). Henotheism is a system in which one deity is worshipped without denying that other deities exist.
     
  10. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus Moderator

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    So believing that everybody's religion is valid? Tolerant, and good for civilisation as a whole, but not very logical - Pastafarianism becomes as valid as the Big Bang theory
     
  11. Phlegmak

    Phlegmak Deity

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    He's in the book of Job.
     
  12. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    Not really. The first commandment doesn't tell you that you can't believe that other Gods exist - only that you can't worship them ahead of Yahweh.
     
  13. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus Moderator

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    It does suggest 'don't listen to these other guys, I'm your god'
     
  14. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    Yeah, I'm just saying that "believing that they exist" doesn't equal "listening to them"
     
  15. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus Moderator

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    That's what I mean.
     
  16. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    No, that's not what henotheism means at all. It's like an intermediary step between polytheism and monotheism. :p
     
  17. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    He does, actually, going by the title of the "Accuser" or "Slanderer" the name "Satan" being an Anglicisation, I believe, of whatever that is in Hebrew. He was a servant of god, tasked with testing the faith of mankind, consistent with his role as the "Seducer" in the Gospels. It's only outside of the Old Testament and Gospels that the modern concept of Satan begins to emerge, and, even then, a lot of that is comprised of later superstition, rather than any Biblical basis.
    And, of course, the first commandment would forbid his worship before that of Yahweh, as you say, as with any other celestial being. Besides, in the context of his role as a seducer in the service of god, it would be hard to imagine a situation in which he could have been worshiped.
     
  18. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    He is mentioned in the first two chapters in the book of Job, which was the first book written He is also mentioned by other names in the OT. He is called Lucifer in Isaiah 14, which means day star, which is in direct contradiction to the morning star which refers to the Messiah i Hebrew Scriptures. He is said to be the king of Tyre, in Ezekiel 28. Of course the NT refers to him as a serpent, in reference to Genesis 3.

    The last part is confusing, are you refer just believing that he exists? or actual Satanism where you are worshipping him?
     
  19. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    :blush: Yes, yes, I stand corrected... Although Lucifer literally translates to "Lightbearer" or "Lightbringer", but I'm unfamiliar with what the term in Hebrew or Aramaic might be (Lucifer being Latin, from lux - light - and ferre - to carry, so it can't be the original term). Good to sea the Torah/OT is still in the minds of some - thanks Phlegmak, Traitorfish and classical_hero.:hatsoff:

    The 1st commandment explicitly acknowledges the existence of other gods, but insists they are false idols. (The mentioning of the devil, as in Job and Ezechiel, actually confirms this: false gods lead to evil things, whereas God is the only true god.)
     
  20. west india man

    west india man Immortal

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    But how do you know the devil isn't necesarily a god...

    Also, I think the belief in faith is utter bull****

    Oh, and according to the website on the first post:

    Spoiler :
     

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