Punching Nazis

[Kyriakos]

I don't think that Milo is that close to Trump, character-wise. Milo seems to be more of a career troll (with some actual degree of eloquence and stage presence, as if it was a movie) while Trump is more of the Mussolini clown-leader type. He even looks like il Duce, and moves like him
Imo Milo is more of a version of Colbert, really. Just not working as a comedian who has a virtually 100% political routine (Colbert), but a politically-using troll, in the vein of a character by Sascha Coen (Borat, Ali G etc, and btw i think Coen was/is even more of a douche than Milo )

And more in the same vein... I mean, it does look like an act Wouldn't be surprised if that is exactly what it is. Fits with the age of show and troll.

Now, is it irresponsible to do this if an act? Obviously. But maybe it is time to check how messed up things have been since 2001 and W's massive wars. By now trolling is sort of the normal, mostly a normal reaction to a rather incredibly ruinous age, but maybe some people just opt to make a full-blown career out of it.

 

[jma22tb]

C'mon, dude, "traditionalist" is the 2014 euphemism for "Nazi", the new term is "alt-right", get with the times.

You do realize I have a large thread about the Alt Right up right? Lol.

Traditionalists are what's coming after the Alt Right once the Left has been permanently disenfranchised in the US

 

[Traitorfish]

Traditionalists are what's coming after the Alt Right once the Left has been permanently disenfranchised in the US

That seems unlikely. I mean, are "traditionalists" even a thing, outside of the internet?

 

[bernie14]

If the dehumanisation of Nazis is more troubling to you than Nazism itself, you may want to re-examination your priorities.

ah, no. i don't ascribe to your limited moral definitions, concocted from extremist ideology. any fool can redefine terms to their liking to justify violence against others. ... but if we apply some objectivity, how many deaths can be attributed to nazism?..how many deaths can be ascribed to communism?....i may be as justfied to punch a nazi bipedal hairless ape as i am to punch a marxist bipedal hairless ape..

@Kyriakos actually, milo is to the right of ghengis khan

 

[Lexicus]

Traditionalists are what's coming after the Alt Right once the Left has been permanently disenfranchised in the US

@Timsup2nothin not sure if you missed this little gem.

 

[Traitorfish]

ah, no. i don't ascribe to your limited moral definitions, concocted from extremist ideology. any fool can redefine terms to their liking to justify violence against others. ... but if we apply some objectivity, how many deaths can be attributed to nazism?..how many deaths can be ascribed to communism?....i may be as justfied to punch a nazi bipedal hairless ape as i am to punch a marxist bipedal hairless ape..

I mean, you wanna start smacking Tankies, I'm not going to offer to take any lumps on their behalf.

 

[Ajidica]

I don't think that Milo is that close to Trump, character-wise. Milo seems to be more of a career troll (with some actual degree of eloquence and stage presence, as if it was a movie) while Trump is more of the Mussolini clown-leader type. He even looks like il Duce, and moves like him
Imo Milo is more of a version of Colbert, really. Just not working as a comedian who has a virtually 100% political routine (Colbert), but a politically-using troll, in the vein of a character by Sascha Coen (Borat, Ali G etc, and btw i think Coen was/is even more of a douche than Milo )

I'd never actually heard talk him before, and didn't realize how camp he was. Thought he was much more straight gay.
Not that it is a bad thing, mind you.

He seems that despite a handful of valid arguments he has, he revels in getting a rise out of people and decided to set up shop beneath the bridge and discovered he had a ready-made group of supporters: those that take what he says as a shock-jock as being true.
This really seems to be a case of "Don't Feed the Troll".

That seems unlikely. I mean, are "traditionalists" even a thing, outside of the internet?

Traditionalist as a non-code word for white supremacist? I would say yes. My grandparents are definitely not white supremacists (unless granny is really good at disguising the klan costumes as bedsheets) but they consider themselves distinctly traditional in social areas. You must know the type: not sold on the concept of gay marriage but don't hate the gays, think kids need to be taught religion but don't think atheists are horrible, think modern media is too sexualized, and mild amounts of old person racism.

 

[Traitorfish]

Milo is such a strange figure. A gay, foppishly aristocratic Anglo-Greek whose become the darling of WASPish Americans nationalists with masculinity issues and an obsession with global elites. He's supposedly part-Jewish, too, which, I mean, that's a whole thing with these people.

Have to give them credit for being more open-minded than I would've guessed, even if I can't help but imagine that Milo's life expectancy in the Fourth Reich would not prove enviable.

 

[bernie14]

I mean, you wanna start smacking Tankies, I'm not going to offer to take any lumps on their behalf.

Sorry, you can't get away with defining nazism by it's actions and then redefining communism as some non existing mythical beast

 

[Traitorfish]

Sorry, you can't get away with defining nazism by it's actions and then redefining communism as some non existing mythical beast

Tankies aren't mythical, they have a stall on Buchanan Street every Sunday. It might be harder to maintain public sympathy while laying about them, because they all seem to be retired geography teachers and their pamphlets tend to be about things like housing benefits rather than about race war, but you can only listen to your own conscience.

 

[Tani Coyote]

I can't get behind legitimizing and normalizing individual violence, regardless of whether or not the other person deserves it. I firmly adhere to the concept of immediate threats in excusing violence (in proportionate, defensive terms). Now, there is the concept of preemptive strikes against possible threats, but I don't think a racist speaking out on its own is a threat. I am also wary to define it as such, because this opens the gate of the state deciding who is and isn't a threat for expressing their opinion (even if said opinion is horrendously stupid).

That said, Nazis are awful, so I'm not crying any tears for them either. But I'm averse in both legal and ethical terms to okaying it.

 

[bernie14]

Tankies aren't mythical, they have a stall on Buchanan Street every Sunday. It might be harder to maintain public sympathy while laying about them, because they all seem to be retired geography teachers and their pamphlets tend to be about things like housing benefits rather than about race war, but you can only listen to your own conscience.

sorry for the misunderstanding, I was not referring to the "tankies" definition, I was referring to yours

 

[innonimatu]

but if we apply some objectivity, how many deaths can be attributed to nazism?..how many deaths can be ascribed to communism?....i may be as justfied to punch a nazi bipedal hairless ape as i am to punch a marxist bipedal hairless ape..

The founder ideologues of Marxism (you know, the bearded gut and his friends in the 1800s) killed a grand total of 0 people and never gave orders or wrote about killing anyone. They just predicted the end of capitalism due to internal contradictions, and called on workers to organize to replace it.

The founder ideologies of Nazism (you know, the austrian corporal and his friends) killed about 50 million people all together, and intended to kill a few hundred million. They deliberately organized extermination camps and killer groups that killed some 10 million or more.

There's your answer.

 

[bernie14]

you are also equating ideology to action, these are different things....the marxism that you and TF speak of has NEVER happened.....so you can say that ideology has never killed anyone, right?

 

[Mouthwash]

The founder ideologues of Marxism (you know, the bearded gut and his friends in the 1800s) killed a grand total of 0 people and never gave orders or wrote about killing anyone. They just predicted the end of capitalism due to internal contradictions, and called on workers to organize to replace it.

The founder ideologies of Nazism (you know, the austrian corporal and his friends) killed about 50 million people all together, and intended to kill a few hundred million. They deliberately organized extermination camps and killer groups that killed some 10 million or more.

There's your answer.

I honestly don't see your point here.

 

[Lexicus]

but I don't think a racist speaking out on its own is a threat.

You wouldn't happen to be white, wouldja?

 

[bernie14]

You wouldn't happen to be white, wouldja?

this is exactly the sort of conflation that is turning off the moderates...

 

[innonimatu]

you are also equating ideology to action, these are different things....the marxism that you and TF speak of has NEVER happened.....so you can say that ideology has never killed anyone, right?

There is no ambiguity, no argument possible about the ideology of Nazism and how it translates to action. We know how it went, what the founders of that ideology did when they got power.

There is a lot open about how Marxism translates to action. Indeed it is even proverbial how much the left has always been split between many different and opposed parties, each with its different programme on how to replace capitalism with some kind of socialist system.

One is unambiguously and absolutely evil, as demonstrated by its very founders. The other is a political ideology like many others, very open to interpretation both historically and in the future.

 

[Lexicus]

this is exactly the sort of conflation that is turning off the moderates...

What conflation?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

this is exactly the sort of conflation that is turning off the moderates...

If you define "the moderates" as people who want to sit it out and see what happens does it really matter if they are "turned off"?