Punching Nazis

[Mouthwash]

There is no ambiguity, no argument possible about the ideology of Nazism and how it translates to action. We know how it went, what the founders of that ideology did when they got power.

There is a lot open about how Marxism translates to action. Indeed it is even proverbial how much the left has always been split between many different and opposed parties, each with its different programme on how to replace capitalism with some kind of socialist system.

One is unambiguously and absolutely evil, as demonstrated by its very founders. The other is a political ideology like many others, very open to interpretation both historically and in the future.

I don't care how it is 'interpreted,' I care what communists do when they achieve power.

 

[Ajidica]

I don't care how it is 'interpreted,' I care what communists do when they achieve power.

 

[Mouthwash]

If he gained power by democratic election he isn't really Marxist... there's the whole "revolution by the masses" which is fundamental to that. I'd say he's the equivalent of Winston Churchill on the left.

 

[Lexicus]

If he gained power by democratic election he isn't really Marxist

Er, what? The Communist Manifesto instructs the proletariat to seize power by winning the battle for democracy.

 

[Ajidica]

If he gained power by democratic election he isn't really Marxist... there's the whole "revolution by the masses" which is fundamental to that. I'd say he's the equivalent of Winston Churchill on the left.

Allende had a fondness of gassing Muslim hill tribes and aerial bombing on the North-West Frontier, and said his partners in the Wartime Coalition to be like the Gestapo?

Er, what? The Communist Manifesto instructs the proletariat to seize power by winning the battle for democracy.

I was under the impression Marx later regretted writing The Communist Manifesto because it was written in the context of the Revolutions of 1848 and was a grab-bag of revolutionary ideas rather than a coherent theory.
Not saying you are wrong, just that the presence of something in The Communist Manifesto doesn't mean it remained a part of Marxist or Communist theory.

 

[Lexicus]

I was under the impression Marx later regretted writing The Communist Manifesto because it was written in the context of the Revolutions of 1848 and was a grab-bag of revolutionary ideas rather than a coherent theory.
Not saying you are wrong, just that the presence of something in The Communist Manifesto doesn't mean it remained a part of Marxist or Communist theory.

I don't think there is really any such thing as "Communist theory," and "Marxist theory" covers a pretty wide variety of positions. Which is sort of the point here.

 

[bernie14]

There is no ambiguity, no argument possible about the ideology of Nazism and how it translates to action. We know how it went, what the founders of that ideology did when they got power.

There is a lot open about how Marxism translates to action. Indeed it is even proverbial how much the left has always been split between many different and opposed parties, each with its different programme on how to replace capitalism with some kind of socialist system.

One is unambiguously and absolutely evil, as demonstrated by its very founders. The other is a political ideology like many others, very open to interpretation both historically and in the future.

absolutely, positively, the vile and disgusting ideology that is nazism has been exposed for what it was/is and defeated, those not killed, tried for crimes against humanity....

now back to the punchy, punchy....why would you or I react more violently to the slippery slope of some schmuck spouting a failed, absolutely crap ideology, than to some idiot trying to reinvent marxism when everyone whom has tried has failed miserably and killed millions of people? words are not actions, ideology is not violence..

If you define "the moderates" as people who want to sit it out and see what happens does it really matter if they are "turned off"?

sit what out?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

sit what out?

The US government embracing every tenet of fascism.

 

[Traitorfish]

sorry for the misunderstanding, I was not referring to the "tankies" definition, I was referring to yours

My definition of communism is mostly based around strikes and trade unions and such. I don't think that can be fairly equated to Nazism, which takes war and genocide as a central premise, simply because some people find both distasteful.

 

[aelf]

As I'm sure you remember from history, a lot of people voted for Hitler, but not enough for him to gain the majority.

Same with Trump.

Well, all of Trump's cabinet picks have been confirmed. The moderates have failed again and will probably continue to fail. In the end, they're likely to end up accomplishing little and be saddled with the reputation of not having respect for democracy for opposing an elected President anyway.

 

[Kyriakos]

Milo is such a strange figure. A gay, foppishly aristocratic Anglo-Greek whose become the darling of WASPish Americans nationalists with masculinity issues and an obsession with global elites. He's supposedly part-Jewish, too, which, I mean, that's a whole thing with these people.

Have to give them credit for being more open-minded than I would've guessed, even if I can't help but imagine that Milo's life expectancy in the Fourth Reich would not prove enviable.

I don't know his history, but to me - again - it looks very unlikely that such an attitude isn't an act, or at the very least cored on an act
I mean, it probably is a good way to get very famous fast, if you have no issues with the effects of your trolling, and a personality that (as Ajidica said) revels in this
You could see him doing pretty much the same routine in a highschool jock movie, with some differences added for shock irl.

Besides...: posing power of Anglos + posing power of Greeks = unusual posing power

 

[bernie14]

The US government embracing every tenet of fascism.

Tim, you would have been an excellent pirate!!

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Tim, you would have been an excellent pirate!!

Well, yes, but what that has to do with the current conversation I can't guess.

 

[bernie14]

Well, yes, but what that has to do with the current conversation I can't guess.

Just a general observation.

 

[Hygro]

http://observer.com/2017/02/i-helpe...aybook-you-should-stop-playing-right-into-it/

If any of this sounds familiar, it should. Because it’s basically the exact playbook that right wing blogger Milo Yiannopoulos is running on his own cross-country trolling tour. By almost any metric but political correctness, it’s been masterfully successful—his book has since been to #1 on Amazon twice, and the protests at UC Berkeley last week generated national headlines and were addressed directly by the President.

The déjà vu is not accidental. Numerous leaders of the alt-right movement read the book I published in 2012, which outlined exactly how this media strategy works. Several have told me Trust Me, I’m Lying is their bible.​

 

[Mouthwash]

http://observer.com/2017/02/i-helpe...aybook-you-should-stop-playing-right-into-it/

If any of this sounds familiar, it should. Because it’s basically the exact playbook that right wing blogger Milo Yiannopoulos is running on his own cross-country trolling tour. By almost any metric but political correctness, it’s been masterfully successful—his book has since been to #1 on Amazon twice, and the protests at UC Berkeley last week generated national headlines and were addressed directly by the President.

The déjà vu is not accidental. Numerous leaders of the alt-right movement read the book I published in 2012, which outlined exactly how this media strategy works. Several have told me Trust Me, I’m Lying is their bible.​

I'm looking forward to 2020.

 

[aelf]

http://observer.com/2017/02/i-helpe...aybook-you-should-stop-playing-right-into-it/

If any of this sounds familiar, it should. Because it’s basically the exact playbook that right wing blogger Milo Yiannopoulos is running on his own cross-country trolling tour. By almost any metric but political correctness, it’s been masterfully successful—his book has since been to #1 on Amazon twice, and the protests at UC Berkeley last week generated national headlines and were addressed directly by the President.

The déjà vu is not accidental. Numerous leaders of the alt-right movement read the book I published in 2012, which outlined exactly how this media strategy works. Several have told me Trust Me, I’m Lying is their bible.​

It's all very interesting, especially since it's nearly impossible to fight against such tactics due to the difficulty inherent in trying to control everyone's reactions. Even if you counter it perfectly, someone else, especially those not in your group, might not.

The way I see this, the moderate strategy of trying to ignore trolling and take the high ground is doomed to fail, and the moderates will simply end up disillusioned with people (as recent threads seem to show). Time to find some other way of fighting the alt-right.

 

[Kyriakos]

It's all very interesting, especially since it's nearly impossible to fight against such tactics due to the difficulty inherent in trying to control everyone's reactions. Even if you counter it perfectly, someone else, especially those not in your group, might not.

The way I see this, the moderate strategy of trying to ignore trolling and take the high ground is doomed to fail, and the moderates will simply end up disillusioned with people (as recent threads seem to show). Time to find some other way of fighting the alt-right.

Career trolls are not just found in the alt-right, or in the general right. I find it quite dangerous to look up to tv/media personalities in the first place. And, again, Trump was a result of just this kind of bad obsession with celebrities and their precious views, and posing as a champion for part of the population. SJWs are another example of this phenomenon, although there it may be even a bit more ominous that their following seems all the more loyal and of the view they found a champion.
Media champions= bad omen.

Imo, it is to be always the case that such champions are lowly people themselves, in one way or another (or in many ways). Actually caring people don't usually aspire to be marketed as your champion.

 

[Yeekim]

http://observer.com/2017/02/i-helpe...aybook-you-should-stop-playing-right-into-it/

If any of this sounds familiar, it should. Because it’s basically the exact playbook that right wing blogger Milo Yiannopoulos is running on his own cross-country trolling tour. By almost any metric but political correctness, it’s been masterfully successful—his book has since been to #1 on Amazon twice, and the protests at UC Berkeley last week generated national headlines and were addressed directly by the President.

The déjà vu is not accidental. Numerous leaders of the alt-right movement read the book I published in 2012, which outlined exactly how this media strategy works. Several have told me Trust Me, I’m Lying is their bible.​

A great article.

 

[Lexicus]

I liked it except the part where the guy said that Milo hasn't done anything to deserve getting no-platformed. Doxxing people definitely warrants no-platforming.