remember 9/11

[Sonereal]

You didn't even click the link did you? Didn't even understand a OP pun...

I did.

I was going off a tangent and didn't quote/flesh out the thought well enough. That's what I get for trying to post fast.

 

[Angst]

I think most of us agree with this. Many of us, myself included, even agree with the sentiment behind the OP. The issue here for me isn't about the subject.

It's about the trollish nature of how it was brought up and the deliberately spiteful timing.

Or perhaps it'll simply help opening some eyes by using the date to have some people reconsider their sensibilities.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

"Sorry we burned down your village. Here's some gold."

That's more of a viking thing. We burn down nations and give the people gold. Respect

Seriously though, you oversimplify to the max and thereby prove nothing.

 

[Angst]

That's more of a viking thing. We burn down nations and give the people gold. Respect

Seriously though, you oversimplify to the max and thereby prove nothing.

Rofl.

Mourning too much about 9/11 is an oversimplification.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I don't see anyone opening their eyes...

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Rofl.

Mourning too much about 9/11 is an oversimplification.

Glad you got a laugh. I was proud of that one!

Really, as I said before, if this had been posted ANY other day, I wouldn't be arguing with you over this. It's just still a raw nerve and the OP/title are very insensitive.

 

[Birdjaguar]

While I do not know for sure what HK's motivation for this thread's title were, I do suspect that trolling was not very far out of the picture. That said, it has provided for a lively discussion.

Along a similar vein, the Today Show on NBC this morning skipped the sacred moment of silence and talked about breast implants. Go figure.

 

[Angst]

Glad you got a laugh. I was proud of that one!

Really, as I said before, if this had been posted ANY other day, I wouldn't be arguing with you over this. It's just still a raw nerve and the OP/title are very insensitive.

Maybe the point is to hit people where it hurts so they feel it the strongest.

It's not my own paedagogic method, but I honestly think Americans are mature enough to get it.

Any other day, I'd been nicer about it. I agree with the OP, but didn't make it. Do I support it? Dunnow. And honestly, if it really helped in regards to the way Americans acted, I'd concede any points in all threads and allow them to be right. Because if you acted rightly, I'd be wrong to criticize you.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Maybe the nerves aren't so raw after all.

 

[Angst]

Saddens me a bit. Humanity will never learn. D:

 

[civver_764]

He makes a valid point. Americans place way too much importance on the WTC attacks, and in turn a blind eye to the much worse atrocities committed by their government.

 

[Bugfatty300]

I did.

I was going off a tangent and didn't quote/flesh out the thought well enough. That's what I get for trying to post fast.

Ah, we're cool then.
----------
Anyway, it's a bit odd and frustrating that I'm accused of lacking empathy towards non-Americans for asking a sarcastic but valid question. Reminds me of debating 9/11 with fellow Americans who are real tightwads about it.

 

[Angst]

I'm actually happy the Americans in this thread are that constructive.

Respect. Seriously.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Interestingly enough, it's almost 9 PM Eastern US Time and this is pretty much the closest thing to a "9/11 remembrance" thing I've seen. I'm sure there was a few stuff on TV or whatever. I didn't even think about 9/11 until I saw this thread this afternoon.

 

[Angst]

Last year, people were really rude at me for being critical of American's victimization.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Last year, people were really rude at me for being critical of American's victimization.

Sorry about that (I wasn't here last year, but I'll apologize anyways). We cool now?

Also - I don't know enough about Japan I admit - but the European ultimate peace wasn't arranged by Americans, even though the presented the temporary post-WWII one. Remember the Cold War? Was that American peace? It was the coal & steel union that was done between France and Germany to finally end the age old feud, the very same union that evolved into EU. Thank you for the Marshall plan, but it was half implemented by you guys to ensure markets to begin with, so yeah. I understand it was a good thing, but it did also create market dependency.

I'm sorry to bring this back up, but I had a thought on it.

The European ultimate peace was arranged by the Americans. With boots, bullets and bombs. Even when it comes to the USSR's role in the war - we propped them up big time and ripped the Western front wide open. And the Pacific one, and the African and British fronts when you factor in the material we provided and lend/lease.

As for the coal & steel union, how could that have happened if we hadn't liberated France and forced democracy down Germany's throat, then stuck around to make sure everyone played nice? After the last war they fought, they didn't have a coal & steel union, France just took everything they could from Germany and ended up raising the probability of another war, which eventually happened.

If there's anything I know about European history, it's that you all would have never learned to play nice without serious intervention. We provided that.

We also set up and funded (and still mostly fund) the UN - a huge driving force for change on the planet.

With the Marshal loans, you can complain about them, but think of this:

When in history has a conquering country gone out of their way to finance the rebuilding of the countries they just conquered, provided for their security while they did so, continued to provide their security after the fact and NOT taken over the conquered countries? Especially considering that the counquered countries struck first? Seriously, who does that?
USA#1

And European-American trade works both ways, it's not like we set up a predatory system at all a la the Eastern Bloc. I enjoy Nestle products as much as I'm sure you like your Coke-a-Cola.

As for all of our atrocities, they deserve attention for sure. We need to be shamed over them and not forget them so that we can learn from our mistakes. But I honestly believe that on the balance, the US has been a great positive force in the world for all the reasons I just listed.


None of which changes the fact that Holy King is trolling our country today.

 

[utgotye]

Just out of curiosity, what specific atrocities are you speaking of? Which ones get up your nose the most?

 

[MobBoss]

better people would probably think to themselves: "oh, other people have completely different associations with the term 9/11 than me, cool, that gives me some perspective."

better people.

Better people wouldnt trod needlessly upon the emotions of those that feel this date is significant for obvious reasons.

Better people.

 

[GoodGame]

Number of times I have visited Chile: 0

Number of times I have visited the USA: 2

At any rate, a moment of silence and a black ribbon for all victims.

 

[Crezth]

I really hate that the forum's one 9/11 remembrance thread was a snarky political commentary.* I'm not exactly a gung-ho "USA #1" kind of guy, but something about that just don't sit right with me.

*I am aware of the hypocrisy, thank you.